Apollo 15 Lunar Surface Journal


EVA-2 Closeout

Corrected Transcript and Commentary Copyright © 1996 by Eric M. Jones.
All rights reserved.
Last revised 2 October 2012.


MP3 Audio Clip ( 3 min 24 sec ) by David Shaffer

148:32:16 Irwin: Okay, Joe, I'm back at the LM. (Pause)

148:32:23 Allen: (Making a rare mis-identification because of the static) Okay, Dave, copied you back at the LM, parking the Rover normally, and we're standing by for TV again.

148:32:32 Irwin: No, that's Jim. Jim is back. I don't know, Dave might be close.

148:32:39 Scott: I'm getting on the Rover now Jim. I'm just parking your TV for you. (Long Pause)

148:33:11 Irwin: (Static fades) Hey, Dave, you do have some cores now to go in the SRC. Is that right?

148:33:15 Scott: No.

148:33:16 Irwin: No?

148:33:18 Scott: No, Jim, I didn't get them out yet.

148:33:19 Irwin: Okay. Well, I guess I'll go ahead and put the bag that I have here in SRC 2.

148:33:28 Allen: Jim, if you can get the SESC in there that would be great, and then go ahead and close out that rock box. (Pause) No problem on those drill stems, we'll get them later. (Long Pause) And, Dave, this is Houston. If there's dust on the LRV Batt(ery) covers, brush it off before you open them, please.

148:34:11 Scott: Okay, Joe. (Looking at CDR-21) I guess we head north, cross-Sun, remember. (Pause)

148:34:30 Irwin: Is that right? Put it in your parking place.

148:34:32 Scott: Huh?

148:34:33 Irwin: Put it in your parking place here.

148:34:36 Scott: Yeah. This is north, cross-Sun isn't it.

148:34:38 Irwin: Yeah.

148:34:39 Scott: What I thought. (Pause) There's north, cross-Sun. Okay. How's that, Jim, is that okay for you?

148:34:55 Irwin: Good. (Pause)

MP3 Audio Clip ( 13 min 23 sec ) by David Shaffer

148:35:01 Allen: And, Dave, this is Houston.

148:35:05 Scott: Go ahead.

148:35:07 Allen: Roger, Dave. While you're brushing the LRV BAT covers, you might as well give the whole area a good dusting and cleaning. The LCRU covers, the TCU, the television camera, please.

148:35:22 Scott: Be glad to, Joe. (Pause) Taking three up this time, Jim?

148:35:36 Irwin: Huh?

148: Scott: This go in that bag?

148: Irwin: Yeah. Just put all those rocks - I can get those, Dave.

148:35:42 Scott: Okay, here's one for you. I'll set it right up by your camera. Okay?

148:35:50 Irwin: Okay. (Pause)

148:35:59 Allen: And, Jim, are you packing the rock box yet?

148:36:07 Irwin: Yeah; I am.

148:36:10 Allen: Did you happen to get a number off the SESC?

148:36:17 Irwin: No, I didn't. But, shoot, you ought to be able to track that one, Joe.

148:36:21 Allen: We'll track it. No problem. (Long Pause)

148:36:48 Allen: And, Dave, we assume that you're dusting and cleaning now; and we'll be standing by for TV.

148:36:55 Scott: Well, okay, Joe. I'm not sure I'm going to take the time to give you the TV, unless you really need it.

148:37:00 Allen: Dave, we've got a lot of time. We're going to deploy the flag now and we need the TV please. (Jim laughs)

148:37:13 Scott: Okay, Joe.

148:37:15 Allen: And, we're in good shape on the time. We're back at the LM; and we've got a lot of time to work with. So no problem.

148:37:23 Scott: Okay, Joe. Why don't you just give us about five minutes with no comments and let us just cool it for a while. Okay?

[Houston has handled this situation badly. At the very least, they should have taken a few minutes during the drive back to explain what was contemplated, rather than feed one revision at a time, keeping the crew in the dark about the schedule for the rest of the EVA. The disruption caused by the drilling problems has been frustrating enough and, having rushed to get things done in expectation of an immediate close out, to be told now that "we've got a lot of time", must have been doubly frustrating. A discussion during the drive back would have allowed better pacing and, most importantly, crew buy-in.]

[Scott - "Probably not really 'doubly frustrating' but, on the other hand, confusing. Okay, 'got five minutes to get back to the LM', so you get moving. And then, 'you've got plenty of time'. I think you're comments are good."]

[Jones - "And your 'why don't you give us five minutes with no comments' is fairly uncharacteristic. I mean, you're not getting angry with them, but it's not your usual kind of statement."]

[Scott - "Yeah, I think it's 'Hey, if we've got plenty of time, give us a break! Leave us alone for a while.' 'Cause Joe's been going pretty hard for a while. 'Do this, do this, do this, do this.' Okay, it's his job. But there comes a point where you have to say, 'we're not in a hurry, so let's not get in a hurry.' Certainly, getting in a hurry is bad news, 'cause you screw things up. I think that, at some other point, I told them to cool it. In one of our other EVAs?"]

[Jones - "I think it's after you get the drill stem out."]

[Scott - "You don't want to make mistakes and, every once in a while, you've just got to say, 'Whoa! We got plenty of time. Let's just take a break, slow down, gather what we're doing.' And, at the very least, you'll be more efficient."]

[Jones - "And I detect, in here, that you're a little annoyed with Houston."]

[Scott - "Yeah. 'Cause they probably should have told us. In the last twenty or thirty minutes we've almost been in a frenzy, hustling with the drill and hustling with the soil mechanics and hustle, hustle, hustle. And, when you get in those kinds of modes, that's when you're going to make mistakes. I can hear him hustling us. That's when it's time for everybody to slow. 'Cause you can't afford to make a mistake out here. You only get one. So, it's time to 'Take it easy, Jim. No hurry!'"]

[Jones - "And we can hear Jim puffing a bit."]

148:37:29 Allen: Roger. (Pause)

148:37:35 Scott: Cool it, Jim. Just take it easy. Take a break. That's enough.

148:37:40 Irwin: Okay.

148:37:41 Scott: We've got plenty of time. We're going to cool it right now.

148:37:43 Irwin: Okay. (Pause) I'm having the same problem with that SRC today as I did yesterday. I had to pound on the handle to get it sealed. (Pause)

148:37:56 Scott: Okay, well just take your time.

148:37:59 Irwin: Well, I'm not rushing.

148:38:00 Scott: Use these five minutes as part of our rest period tonight. (Pause)

148:38:07 Allen: Dave and Jim, while you're taking a breather there, let me make a comment. We've got 37 minutes before repress. So we're in good shape on the time. And just for your own information - I know you're curious - your oxygen consumption has been considerably less today - considerably less - and we're running well over a seven-hour PLSS capability.

148:38:29 Scott: Okay, Joe. Very good. Just give us five minutes with a nothing, will you? (Pause) Just (to) make sure we've got a good last twenty-seven minutes.

[Having made his point, Dave relaxes quickly.]
148:38:43 Allen: Yes, sir. (Pause)

148:38:48 Irwin: Dave, I going to get you to give me a hand with this.

148:38:52 Scott: Sure.

148:38:54 Irwin: It's almost a two-man operation. (Pause) Bring it over here.

148:39:04 Scott: Huh? Want to go to the MESA table? Let's go to the MESA table.

148:39:06 Irwin: No, its...Well...

148:39:09 Scott: Yeah, it's easier to work with; it's higher. (Pause) Okay.

148:39:23 Irwin: If you can push down on it, I'll lock it. You might have to hit it down.

148:39:31 Scott: Oh, yeah. (Laughing)

148:39:34 Irwin: You can pound it. That's what I had to do. I had to pound it with my fist yesterday.

[Irwin, from the 1971 Technical Debrief - "We found out subsequently that, apparently, part of the bag was caught in the rear hinge."]

[Scott, from the 1971 Technical Debrief - "Subsequently being now. It looked to me like the lid was closed on the seal."]

[Irwin, from the 1971 Technical Debrief - "In the front, yes; but we never looked at the back of it."]

[Scott, from the 1971 Technical Debrief - "I didn't either. I should have. It looked like the handle was just mismatched completely from its lock. There was no way we were going to get the lock over the handle, because it was too far away. Yet, the front looked like it had been sealed."]

[Irwin, from the 1971 Technical Debrief - "We couldn't get that same box stowed (in the cabin). We couldn't get the rod and pins engaged in the side of the bulkhead in the LM to stow that box. So we eventually lifted off with that box sort of loose, although I put a piece of tape across the thing. But we never could get that box stowed."]

[Scott, from the 1971 Technical Debrief - "That was probably the reason - because the hinge wasn't right."]

[Irwin, from the 1971 Technical Debrief - "But it was the upper SRC. You wouldn't think that would interfere with the engagement pins."]

[Scott, from the 1971 Technical Debrief - "Well, it never got stowed in the LM."]

[Irwin, from the 1971 Technical Debrief - "It was very warm, too. I was surprised how hot the SRC was when we got in."]

[Scott, from the 1971 Technical Debrief - "That's right. It really was."]

[Irwin - "I think the Sun might have been striking the rock box that was out and sitting there, ready to be filled with rocks."]

[Jim's photo AS15-87-11796, which he took at 147:19:33 after they got back from the traverse, shows the rock box on the MESA and in full sunlight.]

[Jones - "Things would heat up pretty quickly?"]

[Irwin - "I wouldn't say that. But I know they cooled off very slowly. As I recall, we took them in and we didn't want to touch them with our bare hands. They were that hot."]

[As mentioned previously, the Sun is currently about 30 degrees above the horizon and the surface temperature is about 50 C or 120 F. At the end of the third EVA at 167 hours, the Sun will have risen another 10 degrees and the surface temperature will be to about 70 C or 160 F.]

148:39:39 Scott: Okay, let me hold your arm, and use your arm as (garbled). Okay?

148:39:44 Irwin: Okay.

148:39:46 Scott: Oh, my! Let me try it this way. (Pause) Even my total body weight won't do it, so I'm going to have to stick one arm under you...

148:40:00 Irwin: I had to pound it yesterday to get it closed. (Pause)

148:40:05 Scott: Well, it closes, but it doesn't lock.

148:40:07 Irwin: Well, I'll have to push it locked.

148:40:10 Scott: Really?

148:40:11 Irwin: Yeah, it won't spring locked.

148:40:14 Scott: Okay.

148:40:16 Irwin: Try it again, Dave.

148:40:17 Scott: It's that close?

148:40:18 Irwin: Yeah. (Dave grunts) (Pause) (Garbled) (Pause) You ought to have that seal pretty well made now.

148:40:43 Scott: Yeah. I'll try it again. (Pause) ... Jim, it's never going to lock. You know why? The lock isn't in the right place! Look at that. Look at where the handle is relative to the lock. You'll never get it over. I've got the handle all the way down!

148:41:06 Irwin: Yeah.

148:41:07 Scott: That lock will never lock this way.

148:41:08 Irwin: Okay, let's look at the right one and see if the right one is the same way.

148:41:11 Scott: Okay.

148:41:13 Irwin: The right one's the same way, I don't know how I ever got the one locked yesterday.

148:41:16 Scott: It can't lock, because the handle was bent up above the lock. There's no way!

148:41:21 Irwin: Yeah.

148:41:22 Scott: Okay, let's take the stuff out of there and leave the SRC. Just leave it, take the stuff in without it.

148:41:30 Irwin: No, we'll take it that way.

148:41:32 Scott: What do we want the SRC for? It's not closed.

148:41:33 Irwin: Well, I think we probably have a seal, if we keep these handles in this position, because the...

148:41:38 Scott: Yeah. That's true.

148:41:39 Irwin: ...the seal is already made. If we could tape those handles down, we'd probably have a vacuum in there.

148:41:45 Scott: Okay.

148:41:46 Irwin: Wait. Be careful we don't release them.

148:41:48 Scott: Okay, yeah. You're right. Okay, what else do you have to do here?

148:41:52 Irwin: (That's) about it.

148:41:53 Scott: Well, let's take a look at things.

[The closeout procedures are on LMP-21 and 22 and CDR-21 and 22.]
148:41:55 Irwin: Dust each other off.

148:42:02 Irwin: Hey, let's get those cover bags.

148:42:04 Scott: Oh, that's a good idea.

[They will put the covers on the SCBs to help control dust in the cabin.]
148:42:05 Irwin: I'll get them if you got something to do out there.

148:42:07 Scott: Yeah. Let me get the TV going here. (Long Pause) Okay. Got some more rocks on the seat pan, too, Jim.

148:42:32 Irwin: Okay. (Pause)

148:42:40 Scott: Okay, Joe, I want to put you on TV...(Brief static) See if I can't find the old Earth here.

148:42:49 Allen: Super, Dave, we're waiting and we still have a full half-hour remaining; good shape.

148:42:59 Scott: Okay, I suggest we take it and go nice and slow and easy.

148:43:02 Allen: That's exactly right.

148:43:09 Irwin: Okay, I have the sample containment bags out here, Dave. I'll just leave them here on top.

148:43:16 Scott: Okay.

[Sample Containment Bags were flown on the J missions to help reduce the amount of dust in the cabin. The Sample Collection Bags were put inside the Containment Bags. Photos of containment bags in the National Air & Space collection courtesy Allan Needell.]
148:43:17 Irwin: I'll come over and pick up those other rock samples. (Long Pause)

Video Clip  3 min 01 sec ( 0.8 Mb RealVideo or 27 Mb MPG )

148:43:33 Scott: Okay, Joe, the AGC says you ought to have a picture.

[TV on.]
148:43:37 Allen: We've got a beautiful picture.

148:43:43 Scott: Of the streaks on the battery covers, huh?

148:43:46 Allen: You never know what you might like to look at. (Pause)

148:43:56 Scott: Yeah. I can even see the Earth. You know, another problem (with use of the sighting scope) is, the Earth is getting smaller.

[Earth is well past half phase. Apollo 15 was launched at 13:34 Greenwich Mean Time on July 26, 1971. We are now at 6 days 4 hours 44 minutes into the mission and it is now 18:18 GMT/UTC on August 1st. Because of the tilt of the Earth and of the Moon's orbit, at this moment the Moon is directly over the southern tip of Africa. It is just past sunset in Lagos, Nigeria, and the Earth is about 1/4 full. The Earth was half full at about 1000 GMT/UTC on the 30th.]
148:44:06 Allen: Roger, Dave. That's one of Kepler's mission rules.

148:44:12 Scott: Right.

[This is, of course, a reference to the German mathematician/astronomer Johannes Kepler (1571-1630) who was the first person to correctly describe the motions of objects in the Solar System.]

[As we will learn at 148:45:18, Fendell is unable to raise the TV camera. He pans right to the LCRU mirror, which Dave has dusted, but not completely.]

148:44:14 Scott: Okay, I got the LCRU (mirror and the) battery covers dusted off; and the console on the LRV isn't too bad, I dusted that off. It wasn't too bad anyway.

148:44:33 Scott: And I guess the next order of business (pause) (is to) get the rocks all packed.

[Fendell pans farther right and looks at the disturbed soil at the front of the Rover.]
148:44:51 Irwin: Okay, Dave, I've got all the rock samples.

148:44:55 Scott: Okay. Get the ETB and get all our film. (Pause)

148:45:06 Irwin: The only task is getting all this stuff up.

148:45:09 Scott: Yeah. We'll use the old...(Pause)

148:45:18 Allen: Dave and Jim, once again our TV camera is stuck in the down position. I wonder if you could give us some help there. And we'd also like an amp-hours reading from the Rover, and a battery temp, please.

148:45:34 Irwin: I'll get that Dave.

[Dave bounces around the front of the Rover from the direction of his seat and raises the TV. As he goes past the front of the Rover, we get a good look at the flat sheet of dust he kicks forward with his boots.]
148:45:35 Scott: The old TV's up.

148:45:36 Allen: Thank you.

148:45:40 Scott: You're welcome.

148:45:42 Irwin: I'll get that other gear - stuff - while you pack.

148:45:45 Scott: Okay.

148:45:48 Irwin: Okay, amp-hour reading is 91 and 96. Battery temp is 100, on both.

148:46:03 Allen: Beautiful, Jim. Are we ever making the miles on that Rover.

[At the start of the EVA-1 traverse at 120:33:49, the initial battery charge readouts were 100 and 115 amp-hours. Thus far, they have driven about 22.8 km (10.3 during EVA-1 and 12.5 km during EVA-2) and have drawn about 38 amp-hours, giving an average of about 1.67 amp-hours/km. Readers should note that this figure includes LCRU usage and an unknown level of uncertainty. Of relevance here is the fact that the indicated use rate is much less than the pre-flight prediction of 3.67 amp-hours/km. See, also, the discussion at 167:35:58.]

[Fendell pans left.]

148:46:09 Scott: That's surprising climbing those hills, too. Could you hand me the cameras over there, Jimmy?

148:46:15 Irwin: Yeah. Let's see, I should pull the circuit breakers on the Rover.

148:46:18 Scott: I can get them easier over here.

148:46:20 Irwin: If you got fingers left for it. I appreciate it.

148:46:22 Scott: Not much, but I'll try. One. Two. (Grunting) Three. Four. Okay.

[Fendell gets around to look at Dave just a moment too late to see him pull the circuit breakers.]

[Off-camera, Jim is standing at his seat and hands a camera across the seats to Dave.]

Video Clip  4 min 13 sec ( 1.1 Mb RealVideo or 37 Mb MPG )

148:46:30 Irwin: Got her?

148:46:31 Scott: Yeah. (Pause) Okay. (Pause) Okay, and there should be another one (meaning another Hasselblad camera) around here. Oh, it's up on the MESA.

148:46:42 Irwin: Let me. I'll get it for you.

148:46:44 Scott: No. Keep going. Yeah, okay; if you want to.

148:46:46 Irwin: I don't have anything to do.

148:46:48 Scott: Okay. Okay, Joe, Mag Kilo is in; and the...(Not sure which camera he just put in the ETB) Somebody's camera with a mag on it. (Chuckles) (Pause)

148:47:00 Allen: Roger. (Pause)

[As we will see, this is the LMP camera.]
148:47:10 Scott: Mag Lima is in the ETB. (Pause) Mag November. (Pause) Mag Delta. (Pause) Mag Echo. (Long Pause)
[Fendell zooms in on the Solar Wind Collector and, in the background, the ALSEP site.]

[Scott - "That's a nice picture of all the pieces out there, and the ALSEP guys are probably dancing in the aisles 'cause it all got setup. We could sort of tell that they often would think that we had ALSEP second or third priority and maybe it would never get done, or not get done right or whatever. So I know they were real happy it got done."]

[Jones - "And 'we' means you and Jim?"]

[Scott - "Yeah. And I guess crews in general. I mean, the ALSEP is a purely mechanical exercise, with the Boyd Bolt stuff that, early on (during Apollo 12 and 14), they had a lot of trouble with. We didn't have any trouble with it; but it was hard, mechanical work. It was much more fun to do geology. Not to diminish the importance of the ALSEP; but, next time around, it will probably be a lot easier to put up ALSEPs 'cause they'll probably all be robotic."]

[Jones - "I've been told that the perfect ALSEP would have a big red button that you pushed and it deployed itself."]

[Scott - "That's right."]

MP3 Audio Clip ( 13 min 15 sec ) by David Shaffer

148:47:57 Irwin: Here's the (CDR) camera, Dave.

148:48:00 Scott: Okay. CDR camera with Mag Oboe.

148:48:04 Allen: Roger. (Long Pause)

[I am still not certain where Jim's camera was during the Station 8 activities at the ALSEP site. The dialog starting at 148:46:09 suggests that the LMP camera was on the Rover. Certainly, Dave's statement that the camera Jim brought over from the MESA has mag Oboe (Number 92 in the Apollo series) is strong confirmation that Jim just gave Dave the CDR camera and that the one Dave put in the ETB at 148:46:48 was the LMP camera.]

[Fendell starts panning clockwise.]

148:48:50 Scott: Mag Metro. (Pause)

148:48:54 Allen: Roger. (Long Pause)

[With the Sun now well above the horizon, we have an excellent up-Sun view of the Swann Range.]

[Jones - "Before I turned the tape recorder on, we were talking about how smooth the hills are and how different the scene is from the science fiction art of the 40's and 50's."]

[Scott - "I think they probably looked at the Moon and saw shadows, which are very sharp. Which gave them the sense of sharp, jagged peaks. And you still see them. Science-fiction-type art is still jagged. You don't see any rounded, smooth hills, even now. (The reality is) there are no peaks. Nothing jagged."]

[Journal Contributor Harald Kucharek calls our attention to a drawing from the book the Moon considered as a Planet, a World, and a Satellite published in 1874 by Scottish engineer/astronomer James Nasmyth (1808-90).]

[Jones - "Hadley is a pretty place."]

[Scott - "Part of the reason we went to Hadley is it's pretty. You have to take that into consideration. Especially when people go to live on the Moon. You've got to have a place that's pleasant to look at. If you're out in the middle of a dead desert, that's boring and you lose something, right? But, if you're in the mountains, where there's a lot of character to the surface, it makes it a more pleasing environment. So I always liked Hadley, 'cause it had all the good stuff there."]

[Jones - "And a lot of geologic variety. And you're close to the mare so that, if somebody wants to go out onto the mare to do mining operations, they can."]

148:49:23 Irwin: Gee, why don't I start transferring some of this stuff, Dave.

148:49:26 Scott: Okay. How?

[Dave is thinking that they will use the LEC to do the equipment transfer.]
148:49:28 Irwin: Take it up (by hand).

148:49:30 Scott: Be careful!

148:49:33 Irwin: (To Houston) Any problem there, Joe, if I start taking this stuff up?

[Fendell finds Jim at the MESA.]
148:49:40 Allen: Stand by, Jim. Just take a breather. Lots of time.

148:49:46 Irwin: Yeah, I know there's lots of time. I was just going to take my time now in getting it up there.

[Jim starts for the ladder with an SCB.]
148: Scott: (Agreeing with Houston) Yeah, why don't we cool it. Oh, did you get the pictures around the LM, by the way?

148:49:56 Irwin: Yeah

148:49:57 Scott: You did. Okay.

148:49:58 Irwin: All the pictures are taken care of.

[Dave comes into view as he takes the ETB around the back of the Rover to Jim's seat. This is probably the best close-up of an ETB in the Apollo TV record.]
148:50:01 Irwin: This TV cable hanging out here is really dangerous.

148:50:03 Scott: Yeah; it sure is.

[This is the LM TV cable that ran from the back of the MESA to the tripod-mounted camera during the Rover deployment. All of the prior crews had trouble with it being underfoot. On Apollo 16, a six hour delay in the landing created a need to conserve LM battery power and the TV camera was not used until after Young and Duke mounted it on their Rover. This meant that there was no TV of the Apollo 16 Rover deployment nor any of Young coming down the ladder the first time and, on Apollo 17, use of the TV prior to its installation on the Rover was eliminated from the flight plan. My thanks to Journal Contributor George Guisti who pointed out that TV of Young's descent down the ladder and of the Rover deployment had been planned for Apollo 16.]
148:50:15 Irwin: Okay; I'll wait, Dave. I won't take anything up.

148:50:19 Scott: I'm just about done here. Mag Foxtrot into the ETB.

[Dave raises Jim's seat and looks under it.]
148:50:25 Scott: Did you get everything you needed out of your seatpan?

148:50:27 Irwin: Yeah.

148:50:28 Scott: Got all the rocks.

148:50:29 Irwin: Yeah.

148:50:30 Scott: Okay. Guess I got all the film. (Pause)

Video Clip  2 min 44 sec ( 0.7 Mb RealVideo or 24 Mb MPG )

[Fendell re-aims the TV and is now looking past the north side of the LM. Dave goes off-camera to the right, carrying the ETB to the MESA.]
148:50:46 Allen: Jim, this is Houston.

148:50:51 Scott: Okay, go ahead, Joe.

148:50:53 Allen: Roger, Jim. At your leisure, we'd like you to deploy the American flag, please.

148:51:02 Irwin: Okay. (Pause) We ought to keep that camera out, Dave.

148:51:09 Scott: (Laughing) I'm getting it out right now. (Pause)

[Jones - "Sounds like nobody's really thinking ahead back in Houston."]

[Scott - "You have everything packed, and then they decide to do the flag. Now you have to unpack the cameras."]

148:51:14 Irwin: One with a color mag. (Chuckles) (The CDR camera) has black-and-white, though.
[The magazine on the CDR camera is Oboe, a B&W mag.]
148:51:19 Scott: It does? (I'll) fix that, if we've got plenty of time. Which one works? Mine or yours?

148:51:30 Irwin: Yours.

148:51:33 Scott: Okay.

[Dave is taking equipment out of the ETB and is putting it on the MESA.]
148:51:35 Scott: Why don't you get started; I'll take care of this. (Long Pause)
[While Dave rummages in the ETB looking for a color magazine, Jim goes to the back of the Rover to get the hammer. He is carrying the flag staff. A detailed discussion of the Apollo 11 flag deployment can be found in Anne Platoff's 'Where No Flag Has Gone Before'. The only major difference from Apollo 11 is that the Apollo 15 flag was stowed in the MESA. Jim unpacked the flag at 147:28:32]
148:52:18 Irwin: I'll take the staff out (to the deployment spot), Dave.

148:52:20 Scott: Yeah.

148:52:21 Irwin: Drive it if I need to. (Pause)

148:52:30 Scott: Yeah, we don't have any color.

148:52:33 Allen: Dave, we'll get color next time no problem...

148:52:34 Scott: Any color film left, Joe?

148:52:35 Allen: ...you've got a beautiful color TV camera looking at you.

148:52:40 Scott: Oh. Okay. (Pause)

148:52:45 Irwin: That's a shame.

148:52:47 Scott: Yup. I hate black and white.

[B&W gives better resolution and better-defined response to light levels, both features of importance for scientific purposes. On the other hand, B&W can't show the dramatic appearance of color on the otherwise grey Moon.]

[Fendell starts panning counter-clockwise.]

148:52:50 Allen: And, Jim, if possible, we'd like for you to come around north of the Rover there to deploy it, and we're tracking the camera that direction.

148:53:00 Irwin: You tell me when I'm in a good position.

148:53:02 Scott: Hey, hey. Over here, Jim!

148:53:03 Irwin: It would be better to have the...

148:53:05 Scott: Yep.

148:53:06 Irwin: ...the LM as a...

148:53:08 Scott: Right here where we usually do it.

148:53:10 Irwin: Or Hadley.

148:53:11 Scott: Huh?

148:53:12 Irwin: Have Hadley in the background.

[Dave comes into view, running past the Rover. He stops and scuffs a mark on the ground.]
148:53:13 Scott: Sure, right there. (Pause)

Video Clip  2 min 47 sec ( 0.7 Mb RealVideo or 25 Mb MPG )

[Dave moves out of the way.]
148:53:17 Allen: Beautiful right there!

148:53:20 Irwin: Suppose that's too...(Stops to listen to Joe) (Long Pause)

[Scott - "Before we went, we staged the orientation of the flag and the Rover in the simulator building at the Cape. We had a plan on where to put everything, and the only problem was, when we finally got to it, the Rover was facing the flag instead of sideways. And I think that's because they were concerned about (battery) temperatures. But, other than that, the location of where Jim was and the flag was and the LM and the Rover was all staged before we went."]

[Jim puts the staff on the scuff mark and leans on it.]

148:53:44 Irwin: Okay, I'm pushing the staff in.

148:53:46 Scott: Okay. (Pause)

[Jim gets the staff in about 6 inches (15 cm).]
148:53:59 Irwin: I'll hit it a few times so it'll stay up here for a few million years.

148:54:02 Scott: That's a good idea. (Pause)

[Jim drives the staff another 10 to 20 cm into the ground with six blows delivered with the side of the hammer. He grips the hammer with his thumb about 10 cm above the head.]
148:54:07 Irwin: Of course, it might make it too low. No, I don't think so. (Long Pause)
[Jim takes the hammer to the back of the Rover for stowage and, off-camera, unfurls the flag. The flag is attached to telescoping crossbar which will hold the flag out from the staff. The crossbar is attached to the top of the staff with a lokcing hinge.]
148:54:28 Scott: Pretty. You've got to admit. (Pause) Okay. (Long Pause)
[Jim comes back into view with the flag fully assembled. He puts the upper staff into the lower section.]
148:55:08 Scott: Let's see.

148:55:09 Irwin: Probably want to swing it around perpendicular to the (TV) camera, huh?

148:55:15 Scott: Okay! It's pretty good! Why don't you stand there?

[Because the flag is translucent and is ENE of the TV, it is the brightest object in the scene and forces the automatic iris to close almost all the way. Dave and Jim are nearly lost in the resulting darkness.]
148:55:21 Irwin: Let me get up on the high part.
[Jim gets up on a slight rise east of the flag.]
148:55:23 Scott: Okay. Gee, I wish we had color (film).

148:55:24 Irwin: Yeah.

148:55:27 Allen: We'll have color tomorrow, Dave...

148:55:28 Scott: That's great just to look at it there.

148:55:29 Allen: ...Saved it especially for you. (Pause)

148:55:33 Scott: (Taking pictures) Okay. (Pause) Okay. That a boy. (Pause) Okay. I've backed up here so I get all of that in there. There, that's good. Good. Got the mountain, got the LM. Great.

[While Jim salutes, Dave takes four photos, AS15-92- 12444 to 12447. Frame 12447 is the best of these.]

[Journal Contributor Ron Creel notes that, in 12446, the front section of the left-front fender appears to be missing. AS15-82- 11121, which was taken at Station 9a during EVA-3, also shows the front section missing. In a February 4, 1996 letter, Dave said, "I do not remember any problems or off-nominal conditions with the LRV fenders. As I recall, they all deployed properly (at 120:30:52), and we never paid any further attention to them." However, during the Apollo 16 mission, during a pre-EVA-3 conversation with Commander John Young at 163:51:50 about dust problems that might occur as a result of a fender loss suffered late in EVA-2, Cap Com Tony England said, "There was a comment from the Apollo 15 crew that (the dust kicked up by) the front wheel didn't seem to bother them when they lost a fender up there, but the back wheels seemed to do more. I don't understand it, but that's what they said." Creel has provided a summary ( 1.3 Mb PDF ) of the fender extension losses that occurred on all three Rover missions.]

Video Clip  2 min 50 sec ( 0.7 Mb RealVideo or 25 Mb MPG )

148:55:58 Irwin: Got it?

148:55:59 Scott: Yup. (Pause)

[Evidently, Fendell has some control over the iris because the scene brightens and, although the image of the flag saturates, Jim comes into view as he goes of-camera to the left to changes places with Dave.]
148:56:08 Irwin: Okay.

148:56:09 Scott: Get it?

148:56:10 Irwin: Got it. (Pause)

[Jim has just gotten the camera from Dave. Just before Dave comes into view and gets into position east of the flag, the TV images darkens.]
148:56:23 Allen: And, Jim, you'll get a feedwater tone in about a minute. Just wanted to warn you, and we're coming up on twenty minutes remaining, two-zero.

148:56:32 Irwin: (Responding to Joe) Okay. (To Dave) Oh, that is a good picture.

148:56:35 Scott: Isn't that a neat picture?

148:56:38 Irwin: Get little...(Pause)

148:56:42 Scott: (Garbled)

148:56:43 Irwin: Try another setting. How about an f/8?

148:56:45 Scott: Yeah, try f/8.

148:56:47 Irwin: Leave it at...

148:56:48 Scott: Yeah.

148:56:49 Irwin: ...f/11, there.

148:56:50 Scott: Yeah. That's what it called for in the...

148:56:51 Irwin: Yeah. (Pause) Okay, I'm taking you again, boss.

148:56:56 Scott: Okay.

[The TV image brightens as Dave salutes.]
148:56:58 Irwin: Oh, you look colorful.

148:56:59 Scott: How about that? Even with the dirt, huh? (Pause)

148:57:05 Irwin: Okay.

[Dave hops off camera to the left.]

[Jim took four pictures of Dave, AS15-92- 12448 to 12451. Frame 12451 is the best of these. Note the footprints and Rover tracks in the crater to Dave's right. This is the last surface picture on magazine 92. The remainder of the magazine was used in orbit.]

148:57:07 Scott: You like that flag there, Joe?

148:57:10 Allen: It's beautiful.

148:57:15 Scott: Yeah. We think it's pretty nice, too. (Long Pause)

[Dave crosses in front of the TV, headed for the LM.]

[Note the slight motion of the lower righthand corner of the flag after Dave passes. Journal Contributors have suggested a number of possible causes: (1) Dave could have brushed against the flag with his left arm as he went by; (2) he could have kicked some dirt with his boot that hit the bottom of the flag; (3) he could have pushed a mound of soil sideways with his boot that pushed against the flagstaff ; (4) the impact of his boots on the ground as he ran past could have shaken the flagstaff; (5) he might have been carrying a static charge which attracted the flag material; (6) the flag could have been disturbed by emissions from the backpack.]

[In thinking about these possibilities, numbers 5 and 6 are very unlikely, since there is no evidence of similar flag motions during the Apollo 14, 16, and 17 deployments for which we have good video or - in the case of Apollo 14 - film coverage. With regard to foot impacts, we can certainly see the ground move when flagstaffs and cores are hammered into the ground, but the motions extend only a few centimeters outward and, because the Apollo 14 flag points at the LRV TV camera, Dave problably doesn't get close enough to the flagstaff for his footfalls to have any noticeable effect. Similarly, it doesn't seem likely that he got close enough to the flagstaff to have moved it with a displaced mound of dirt.]

[The possibility that Dave kicked some dirt high enough to hit the bottom of the flag is not out of the realm of possibility, although in the many cases were we have good TV coverage of sprays of dirt flying out ahead of running astronauts, most of the particles have relatively flat trajectories and land after traveling a meter or so. Indeed, Buzz Aldrin did some purposeful test kicks to see what happened and how the sprays looked under various lighting conditions. This is discussed after 110:18:31. Buzz comments, "Houston, it's very interesting to note that when I kick my foot (garbled) material, with no atmosphere here, and this gravity (garbled) they seem to leave, and most of them have about the same angle of departure and velocity. From where I stand, a large portion of them will impact at a certain distance out. Several (garbled) percentage is, of course, that will impact (garbled) different regions out (garbled) it's highly dependent upon (garbled) the initial trajectory upwards (garbled) determine where the majority of the particles come down, (garbled) terrain."]

[My impression is that few, if any, particles go above knee height.]

[A likely explanation is that Dave brushed the flag with his arm as he went running past. As can be seen in the TV, he is carrying the Hasselblad camera that he just got from Jim and it looks as though, if he brushed the flag at all, he did so with his left elbow. To check this possibility, I have compared three views of the scene: (1) Jim's fourth tourist picture of Dave, AS15-92-12451; (2) the TV view of Dave while Jim was taking that picture; and (3) the TV view of Dave as he went past the flag after the picture taking was complete. The results are summarized in a labeled detail from 12451.]

[Because the TV camera is not visible in 12451, I have estimated its location from Dave's fourth photo of Jim, AS15-92-12447. Using that estimated camera location, the four green lines show the relative vertical locations of the top of the flag where is is tied to the flagstaff, the top of the main body of Dave's PLSS, the bottom of the flag where it is attached to the flagstaff, and the bottom of Dave's PLSS. Relative vertical locations can be measured as the intersections of the lines with any vertical plane such as the left edge of the image.]

[Although Fendell moves his aim to the right and then up by small amounts between the time Jim takes 12451 and the time Dave crosses between the camera and the flag, the relative locations and spacing of the top and bottom of the flag do not change and, conseuqently, these can be used to place the top and bottom of Dave's PLSS as seen in the TV image onto 12451. Because DAve stood with his PLSS erect while Jim was then taking his picture but then assumed a more normal posture by leaning forward about 10 degrees while he was running, I have adjusted the apparent locations of the top and bottom of the PLSS (red lines) so show where the PLSS would have been had it been perfectly vertical.]

Finally, I placed the PLSS (red rectangle) where it would have been in 12451 had Jim taken the picture at the moment Dave was running past the flag. There are two ways the PLSS can be placed. In the first, I measured the apparent height of Dave's PLSS as seen in 12451 and found the place the top and bottom red lines are that far apart. This marked the location of the side of the PLSS nearest to the TV camera. The rest of the PLSS outline was then drawn to scale. Alternatively, we note that, in the TV record, the apparent long dimension of Dave's PLSS - measured along a line titled 10 degrees to vertical - when he ran past the flag was 2.4 times the apparent long dimension of his PLSS when JIm was taking 12451. This means that the near face of the PLSS at the former time is 2.4 times as far from the TV as it was at the latter time. This would put the PLSS a bit closer to the TV camera than I have placed it in the labeled detail.]

[The result is not clear-cut. The estimated PLSS locations makes it possible that Dave's elbow could have touched the flag; but just barely, if at all. This may be consistent with the low amplitude of the observed motion, in that the low amplitude suggests only a slight perturbation, as might have happen if Dave barely brushed the flag with his elbow.]

148:57:40 Irwin: (To Houston) Can we get in now?

148:57:44 Allen: Jim, you're coming up on feedwater tone, probably.

148:57:45 Irwin: What else have you got for us, Joe? (No answer) (Pause)

148:57:55 Scott: (To himself) Okay.

148:57:57 Irwin: That was good timing, Joe. I've got it.

[Fendell pans right, looking for Dave and Jim at the LM.]
148:58:00 Irwin: Dave will you put me on...

148:58:01 Scott: Yeah.

148:58:02 Irwin: Get my (feedwater) diverter valve, too, to Min if you would.

148:58:04 Scott: Sure. Diverter valve's to Min; Aux Water is Open. Okay, we got everything?

Video Clip  3 min 56 sec ( 0.7 Mb RealVideo or 35 Mb MPG )

148:58:23 Irwin: Think we do.

148:58:25 Scott: Now to start back in.

[Fendell finds Dave and Jim at the MESA.]
148:58:26 Allen: Okay...

148:58:27 Scott: Okay.

148:58:28 Allen: ...Dave and Jim, we know you've dusted off our TV gear, we want you to open the LRV Batt covers, please. And give us a status check...

148:58:38 Irwin: All right; what do you want...

148:58:39 Allen: ...of the battery mirrors. Mainly, are they dusty or not?

148:58:45 Scott: Good thought.

[Dave goes to the front of the Rover; Jim goes to the back.]
148:58:47 Irwin: Let me wait until I get a good startup on mine, Dave.

148:58:48 Scott: Okay.

148:58:49 Irwin: I might go to Intermediate (cooling) for getting in.

148:58:52 Scott: Not a bad idea.

[Jim wants to make sure that his PLSS cooling system is fully functional before he climbs the ladder.]
148:58:54 Irwin: We got to dust each other off, too.

148:58:55 Scott: Yeah, I need to dust these battery covers, too.

148:58:56 Irwin: Okay, I'll bring the brush around. (Long Pause)

[Dave goes to Jim's seat and leans in front of the TV as he raises the battery covers. By opening the covers, Dave will expose the cooling mirrors to deep space. Don McMillan has provided an animation ( 0.8 Mb ) of the battery covers on a his Virtual Rover being opened.]
148:59:18 Scott: (Struggling with a battery cover) It's really glued. (Pause) Oh, my! There, it's open. (Pause) Oh, Jim, the maps! I almost forgot the maps.
[Dave grabs the maps off the clip next to Jim's handhold and heads for the MESA so that he can put them in the ETB.]
148:59:41 Allen: Dave, this is Houston.

148:59:44 Scott: Go ahead, Houston.

148:59:45 Allen: Roger, Dave. I think you still need the mag from the DAC and from the 500-millimeter camera.

[The ETB is hanging off the front of the MESA. Dave opens the ETB and stows the maps.]
148:59:54 Scott: No, they're both in here, Joe. And I called them both out. Both tucked away in ETB. (Long Pause)

149:00:12 Irwin: One of the mirrors is cracked, huh?

149:00:14 Scott: Which one?

149:00:15 Irwin: (On top of the) TV.

149:00:16 Scott: Really!?

149:00:18 Irwin: Yeah.

[Dave uses the skip stride as he runs out to join Jim at the front of the Rover.]
149:00:19 Scott: (I didn't) see that? Yeah! Two little squares. (Long Pause)
[Jim comes into view at his seat and reaches across in front of the TV, probably dusting the batteries.]
149:00:44 Scott: Oh, we've got to turn the (16-mm) camera around too, Jim.

149:00:47 Allen: Okay, Jim, your diverter valve...

149:00:48 Scott: Turn the DAC around to point...(Pause)

149:00:53 Irwin: (Responding to Joe) My option now (on the PLSS cooling), huh? Okay. (Pause)

149:01:06 Scott: Okay, let's head on in, Jim.

149:01:11 Irwin: (I) knocked one of the covers down.

149:01:14 Scott: Here, let me dust you off; you're dirty. Let's head on in. (Long Pause)

[Jim joins Dave at the back of the Rover and hands him the dustbrush. Most of the following dusting operation takes place off-camera to the left. All we see is about half of Jim. Dave is undoubtedly standing in a position from which he is dusting the sunlit surfaces of Jim's suit.]
149:01:33 Scott: Okay, turn around to your left. Hold onto you here. (Long Pause) Okay. That's most of it. (Pause)
[Jim now has the dustbrush. Dave is standing between Jim and the LM and we can see Jim wielding the brush with his right hand, which is just in view. He is using short, quick strokes.]
MP3 Audio Clip ( 8 min 54 sec ) by David Shaffer

Video Clip  2 min 12 sec ( 0.6 Mb RealVideo or 19 Mb MPG )

149:02:04 Irwin: How did your front get so dirty? Oh, I know. (You) pulled an Irwin. (Long Pause)

[This is a reference to Jim's fall during the Rover deployment at about 120:16:05. The phrase "pull an Irwin" was also used during Apollo 17.]
149:02:40 Allen: And, Dave and Jim, while you're doing the dusting there, did you get a check on the LRV mirrors for us? If so, I must not have copied.

149:02:49 Scott: Yeah, they're both open; and all four have been dusted.

149:02:54 Allen: Okay, good.

[Jim finishes the front of Dave's suit, having started high and then working his way down. Now, rather than have Dave turn, Jim moves around him.]
149:03:02 Irwin: (At the back of Dave's PLSS) That tape came off your PLSS, Dave.

149:03:03 Scott: Did it really?

149:03:04 Irwin: Yeah, it's ripped on both sides now.

149:03:07 Scott: I wonder where I'm getting that.

149:03:08 Irwin: Might be getting it in the Rover.

149:03:10 Scott: Yep. Could be. I think I see where I'm getting it. No, couldn't be there. No, the seats are smooth.

149:03:17 Irwin: Okay, Dave.

149:03:21 Scott: Okay. Give me the brush. I'll put it back. You can head in and crank up the LEC, and we'll haul all that stuff up nice and easy like.

[Dave takes the brush to the back of the Rover and Jim heads for the ladder.]
149:03:26 Irwin: Okay. Okay, I won't even try and take a bag up then.

149:03:30 Scott: No, let's take it easy.

149:03:32 Irwin: Okay.

149:03:33 Scott: We have plenty of time and (there's) no sense pressing.

149:03:42 Irwin: (At the ladder) What's the battery that I have stowed here under this footpad, Dave?

149:03:46 Scott: That's the LCRU battery...

149:03:47 Irwin: Yeah.

149:03:48 Scott: ...for the next go.

149:03:49 Irwin: Yeah.

149:03:50 Scott: I guess we leave it there, don't we...

149:03:51 Irwin: Yes.

149:03:52 Scott: ...Houston?

149:03:53 Irwin: Yeah. Leave it in the shadow.

149:03:54 Scott: Yeah.

149:03:55 Allen: That's affirm.

149:03:56 Irwin: Don't step on it...

149:03:57 Scott: Okay.

149:03:58 Irwin: ...or knock it out of it's little blanket. (Pause)

Video Clip  3 min 38 sec ( 0.9 Mb RealVideo or 32 Mb MPG )

149:04:05 Irwin: You're going to have to come up and hand me the LEC because we didn't...you didn't...

149:04:07 Scott: Yeah.

149:04:08 Irwin: ...get it in last time.

MPEG Clip by Kipp Teague (52 sec; 6.3Mb)

149:04:09 Scott: Okay, I'll do that. (Long Pause)

[Jim grabs the side rails on the ladder and jumps up. As was the case on the first EVA, it does not appear that he makes the bottom rung and has to pull himself up to it with his arms. He then does a pair of two-footed hops up the next rungs until the porch handrails are in reach. From that point, he walks up the remaining rungs until his knees reach porch level and then uses his arms to pull himself onto it. From the time he makes the first jump until he is on the porch 38 second elapse. Another 22 seconds pass until his feet disappear through the hatch and, occasionally during a final 200 seconds, his feet reappear as he struggles to stand.]
149:05:05 Allen: Dave, this is Houston.

149:05:09 Scott: Houston, go.

149:05:10 Allen: Rog, D.R. We're thinking that that SRC (Sample Return Container or rock box) is not closed very well. We're wondering if it'll go on the LEC properly. (Pause)

149:05:26 Scott: Yeah, you're right. It would, probably; but I guess we'll not take a chance. I'll carry it up (garbled)

149:05:36 Allen: Okay. Fine.

149:05:39 Irwin: I could send some tape out, Dave.

149:05:41 Scott: What?

149:05:42 Irwin: I can send some tape out. (Dave chuckles) Hey, Dave, I know what you could do.

149:05:46 Scott: What?

149:05:50 Irwin: Is put it in one of those Bull Durham sacks.

149:05:54 Scott: No, I'll carry it up easy.

149:05:57 Irwin: Okay. (Pause)

[Dave closes the ETB and then grabs the SRC with his left hand.]
149:06:09 Scott: Okay, I'll carry it up right (garbled) here. (Long Pause)
[Dave goes to the ladder but, unfortunately, just as he grabs the right side rail, the TV camera begins to rotate up. It will wind up pointing straight up at the zenith. About 15 seconds after Fendell starts the upward rotation, Earth comes into view. Journal Contributor George Giusti quotes the following from notes he took on August 1, 1971 while watching television coverage of Apollo 15: "The Earth is very, very small (less than a quarter full) and nearly all white with a very small blue tint." In 1997, he added, "In watching this tape nearly 26 years later - and looking back through my notes - I believe this is the first time the Earth was shown on live TV from the lunar surface!"]
149:06:33 Scott: How are you doing in there?

149:06:35 Irwin: I'm in.

149:06:36 Scott: You are?

149:06:37 Irwin: Yeah, I'm waiting for you.

149:06:38 Scott: Okay.

149:06:39 Irwin: A lot easier with the hatch open.

149:06:40 Scott: Huh?

149:06:41 Irwin: It's a lot easier with the hatch open.

149:06:43 Scott: Oh, all the way you mean, huh?

149:06:44 Irwin: Yeah. (Long Pause) Maybe a little 5 psi on that SRC will close it.

[Jim means that, if they do have a good seal and a vacuum in the box, then the 5 psi of cabin pressure may finish closing the lid.]
149:07:05 Scott: Yeah. (Pause) Let's see, let me get up to where I can get the handle around to you.

149:07:25 Scott: Well, I don't know whether you can get it or not. Maybe...Here, can I help you?

149:07:33 Irwin: If you'll hand me the LEC. I used that yesterday. I can use the hook on the LEC to grab it and pull it up.

Video Clip  2 min 29 sec ( 0.6 Mb RealVideo or 22 Mb MPG )

149:07:38 Scott: Okay, wait. Maybe I can just stick my middle in here.

149:07:42 Irwin: The LEC makes a good handle, a good claw to grab those.

149:07:45 Scott: Oh that! Yeah, that's a good ...Oh! The front part of the LEC.

149:07:49 Irwin: Yeah.

149:07:50 Scott: Okay.

149:07:51 Irwin: Hand it to me. (Pause)

149:08:01 Allen: Dave and Jim. We're standing by for the four pieces of luggage as they go in. We'd like for you to call them out to us.

149:08:09 Scott: Sure will. (Long Pause)

149:08:21 Allen: And, Dave, this is Houston. The next time you go back to the Rover, we need some help on that good old TV camera again. We got it stuck pointed straight up.

149:08:33 Scott: Oh, my! You're looking at the Earth, huh? Earthgazing. (Long Pause) Okay. The SRC is in, Joe.

149:08:54 Allen: We copy.

149:09:04 Irwin: Okay. The ETB is up, Dave, or the LEC, rather.

149:09:08 Scott: Okay. Just a second. (Pause)

[Jim has hooked up the LEC in the cabin.]
149:09:15 Scott: (Commenting on the TV camera) Straight up. (Laughs) I knew Ed (Fendell) would get hung up sooner or later. There you go.
[Dave moves the TV down to an almost horizontal position and then skips to the MESA.]
149:09:26 Irwin: Are you ready?

149:09:27 Scott: No, no, not yet, Jim. I was just fixing the TV.

149:09:29 Irwin: Oh.

149:09:30 Allen: Thank you, Dave. We were belly-up there, momentarily.

149:09:36 Scott: Well, that's all right, Joe. Nobody is perfect. (Long Pause)

[Dave hooks the ETB to the LEC and goes to the bottom on the ladder.]
149:09:53 Scott: (The LM) shadow's sure getting short. Okay, partner, have at it.

Video Clip  3 min 41 sec ( 0.9 Mb RealVideo or 33 Mb MPG )

149:09:57 Irwin: Okay. What am I pulling up?

149:10:03 Scott: ETB. (Pause)

149:10:09 Irwin: Tell me when to slow down.

149:10:10 Scott: Okay. You're doing fine. Keep going. Okay, now...That's it. Now pull it once (sic) more time. (Pause) You got it. Okay. Right...

[The ETB bumps against the porch lip.]
149:10:22 Scott: Oh, shoot! I'm sorry There's so much dirt on this thing. (Pause)
[Dave shakes the LEC to loosen some of the dirt.]
149:10:30 Scott: Caked.
[Dave pulls the LEC taut and the ETB rises enough to clear the lip.]
149:10:32 Scott: Okay, now ease it over...Okay. (Pause)
[The ETB clears the porch and, as it approaches the hatch, Dave pulls the LEC taut again so that it will clear the sill.]
149:10:40 Scott: There you go. Got it?

149:10:43 Irwin: Yup. (Pause)

[Dave drops his end of the LEC.]
149:10:54 Scott: Guess I got dirty again.

149:10:58 Irwin: Brush yourself off.

149:11:00 Scott: Yeah. I'd better. (Long Pause)

[Dave goes to the back of the Rover to get the dustbrush. He does the brushing off-camera.]
149:11:22 Irwin: Okay, the LEC is ready to come back out, Dave.

149:11:24 Scott: Okay. (Long Pause)

[Fendell begins a counter-clockwise pan.]
MP3 Audio Clip ( 16 min 00 sec ) by David Shaffer

149:11:50 Scott: Okay. I'm going to just carry the rock bags (SCBs) up. (It's a) lot easier.

[This is the last use of the clothesline version of the LEC on Apollo. The dialog following 167:53:39 clearly indicates that Dave and Jim don't use the LEC during the EVA-3 closeout. The Apollo 16 and 17 crews don't even take clothesline LEC's to the Moon, although both crews do take simple lanyards so that they can raise and lower the ETB over the porch rail.]

[Scott - "What's the path of least resistance? And it obviously appeared to be easier to haul it up by hand than to do all this stuff where I got fairly dirty. And you're back into higher overhead. Hauling it up with the LEC might be okay, timewise, compared to hauling it up by hand; but, then, you have to go dust yourself off. And that's not good. So I might have just been avoiding the go dust off part."]

[Jones - "That's pretty obvious in this discussion. Ed Mitchell carried a few things up by hand during Apollo 14, and then the 16/17 guys didn't even bother with it. When you're on the ladder, you only need one hand for stability. It's not like you're actually hauling yourself up. It's more like you're hopping up."]

[Scott - "Yeah. 'Cause you don't weigh that much. Of course, the LEC was designed in one g. Going up ladders in one g is much more difficult than doing the rope trick. But you get to one-sixth g (and it isn't)...That says you've got to project yourself into the next environment to see what the problems and the solutions are going to be. I'll bet that, if we'd had a one-sixth-g ETB that didn't weigh very much, we would have concluded that (the LEC was not necessary) before we went. And I don't ever remember dealing with any one-sixth-weight equipment, 'cause we never went to that level of detail. In 1 g, the cameras and the rock boxes and everything weighed a lot; and, I guess, we never projected ourselves into the one-sixth-g environment."]

149:11:59 Irwin: Okay. When you get down, pull the LEC out.

149:12:02 Scott: Yeah, I will.

149:12:04 Irwin: Stow it on the porch.

149:12:05 Scott: Oop. Heavy rock bag.

149:12:09 Irwin: Yeah, that's what I thought. Watch the lid doesn't come open.

149:12:13 Scott: (Laughing) How'd you guess. (Long Pause)

[Dave is probably closing the top of an SCB which, as Jim suspected, came open.]

[About a quarter of the way through the TV pan, the TV begins to tip down, probably suffering another malfunction. We get a good view of various footprints and scrape marks at the front of the Rover.]

149:12:46 Irwin: Just hold up, Dave. I'll get my claw (meaning the end of the LEC) and use it to grab the...

149:12:49 Scott: Okay. (Long Pause)

149:13:04 Irwin: Got it.

149:13:05 Scott: Good. Okay. I'll be right back with another one.

149:13:08 Irwin: Okay.

149:13:09 Scott: I think we got a few rocks today.

149:13:11 Irwin: I think we made up for yesterday.

149:13:12 Scott: Yup. (Pause) Let's see, we got our food in, don't we?

Video Clip  3 min 15 sec ( 0.8 Mb RealVideo or 29 Mb MPG )

149:13:32 Irwin: Yup. You working up an appetite?

149:13:34 Scott: Boy, you better believe. (Long Pause)

[Food for the remainder of the surface stay was stored in the MESA and came up on the pallet early in the EVA at about 142:29:05.]
149:13:50 Allen: Dave, this is Houston. Give me a call on what you're loading now, please.

149:13:55 Scott: Oh, I just took in...What rock bag was that, Joe...(correcting himself) I mean Jim?

149:14:01 Irwin: Well, we have all the samples.

149:14:05 Scott: I know. But what rock bag did I just give you?

149:14:07 Irwin: Oh.

149:14:08 Scott: You know?

149:14:09 Irwin: It's number 6.

149:14:10 Scott: Okay.

149:14:11 Allen: Okay. And I guess the ETB to go, is that right?

149:14:16 Scott: The ETB is in, Joe. Yeah.

149:14:18 Allen: Okay; four items. I'm just marking down four marks here.

149:14:20 Scott: Oh, I'm sorry, Jim.

149:14:21 Irwin: I should have...Why don't you pull that (LEC) strap out, Dave? Get it out of the way.

149:14:27 Scott: Okay.

149:14:28 Allen: And, Dave, give me a call when you go over towards the LCRU and Rover again. One last instruction, and it's an easy one.

149:14:39 Scott: Okay. (Long Pause) (Garbled)

149:14:54 Irwin: Okay, Dave. You can pull all of this (LEC) out.

149:14:57 Scott: Okay.

149:14:58 Irwin: Stow the hook out there (on the porch rail).

149:15:00 Scott: Yeah, I'll do that. (Pause) Hold on to the hook until I get it all down.

149:15:09 Irwin: Yeah.

149:15:14 Scott: Okay. Let go of the hook, I got it.

149:15:16 Irwin: Okay. (Long Pause)

149:15:37 Scott: Okay. Back down (the ladder). (Long Pause)

149:15:55 Scott: Okay, you got another little...Oh, the cover bags are all out here, right?

149:16:00 Irwin: That's right.

149:16:02 Scott: Okay. Good show. I'll bring those up with me on the last trip. All right, Houston, what would you like to do with our friendly Rover?

149:16:10 Allen: Okay, Dave. A few...Let's see, three easy steps. The LCRU power, Off, the LCRU blankets 100 percent open - and that's a change - 100 percent open; and the TV is presently pointed exactly how we would like it left. Over.

[Dave's feet come into view at the left-front of the Rover and we get to watch the motions of the soil as he moves his feet.]
149:16:33 Scott: Okay. The third one is the easiest. And the second one is the easiest (too, because the blankets are already open). And I'll turn the LCRU power Off right now.

149:16:45 Allen: Roger.

[TV off.]
149:16:50 Scott: There, it's Off. Okay. The power is Off, and the blankets are 100-percent open anyway, as you can probably see.

149:17:00 Allen: Roger.

149:17:01 Scott: So, it looks like it's all tidied up for the night.

149:17:04 Allen: Roger. (Pause)

149:17:10 Scott: Anything else, before I hop in, Joe? (Pause)

149:17:21 Allen: Not a thing, Dave. Beautiful job all around.

149:17:24 Scott: Houston, anything else before I hop in?

149:17:31 Allen: Not a thing, Dave.

149:17:35 Griffin: Flight Director wonders if you want to go drill a couple more holes?

[As they will discover in a few minutes, Houston has forgotten to switch from Rover to LM comm and Dave and Jim don't hear Gerry Griffin's transmission.]

[Jones - "How old was Gerry? You were all about the same age, weren't you?"]

[Scott - "I think he was a year or so younger than I. I'd known him from Gemini. We were good friends from Day One. He'd been Guidance and Control on Gemini, when we had all our problems (on Gemini VIII). So, when we got going on all this (meaning the planning for Apollo 15), I had dinner with him or something like that, and said 'why don't you come out and see what we do in the field? Maybe you can understand better, from the Flight Director's perspective, what we're doing.' Well, he didn't have time and etc, etc, etc. But, finally, he came out, and he said, 'Boy, that was really interesting!' And then he got everybody else to come on out. And that's when the Petrones and all these people finally came out and they finally got an understanding of what the geology thing was. It was a good education for him. And he was more involved in the whole mission, then. All of them were. It wasn't just, 'let 'em do their geology and forget about it,' kind of stuff, which I think was what was going on in the past. So now you got them involved."]

149:17:38 Irwin: Sounds like you turned them off, Dave.

149:17:42 Scott: Sure does.

149:17:45 Allen: Dave, can you read Houston? (Pause)

149:17:57 Scott: Okay. Are you configured for me to come in, Jim?

149:17:59 Allen: Dave, can you read Houston?

149:18:00 Irwin: Yeah. Any time, Dave.

149:18:03 Scott: Okay. (Pause) Yeah. I wonder if I ought to go back and turn that back on and talk to him, (and see what) the problem is?

149:18:13 Allen: Negative, negative. Transmitting in the blind.

149:18:18 Scott: Well

149:18:19 Irwin: Well, the LCRU is in a good...

149:18:20 Scott: Yeah, I know it, but why don't we have comm?

149:18:25 Allen: Stand by, Dave. Stand by. Stand by.

149:18:28 Irwin: (Checking the LM comm panel) That's correct.

149:18:30 Scott: On the LCRU?

149:18:31 Irwin: It's coming in.

149:18:32 Allen: Stand by, Dave. We hadn't transferred comm to the LM. We're happy. Please get on in. No further instructions.

149:18:42 Scott: Oh, okay, Joe.

149:18:44 Allen: (Realizing that Dave and Jim can hear him) Okay, beautiful.

149:18:51 Irwin: Okay. Dave is coming up now.

149:18:53 Allen: Outstanding. (Long Pause)

149:19:27 Scott: Okay. (Garbled) both arms.

149:19:34 Irwin: See if you can just push yours off to the right there, Dave.

149:19:36 Scott: Yes, make sure I get them all in though, so we don't have any hang-up on the cabin seal. (Pause)

[Jones - "the way I interpret this is that there's an SCB or two on the floor; and, with Jim standing behind the door, you don't have a lot of room to get in."]

[Scott - "Right. And now you're getting into the real problems because all the stuff in that cabin. Another part of the story - that I'm sure people don't understand - is that, when we got in there with all that stuff and all that dirt, man, that was a challenge. Even though there was pre-planned organization of where it goes, it's still almost overwhelming. And mainly because of all of the dirt. You're trying to contain the dirt."]

149:19:48 Scott: Get my (PLSS/OPS) antenna, Jim?

149:19:50 Irwin: Okay. Can you come in a little farther? (Pause) Okay. Hold it right there. (Pause) Got to preserve one good antenna.

149:20:01 Scott: Yeah.

149:20:03 Irwin: But mine worked pretty good in the stowed position.

149:20:06 Scott: Sure did.

149:20:08 Irwin: Maybe you ought to put yours down there. Save a little time. (Pause)

149:20:13 Scott: Got it?

149:20:14 Irwin: No, just take it easy.

149:20:16 Scott: I'll be glad to. (Long Pause)

149:20:34 Irwin: (Garbled) (Pause) Fingers are just shot, I guess.

149:20:43 Scott: Yeah. Anything I can do?

149:20:45 Irwin: No, just stay right there. (Pause) Little things (are the hardest). Okay. It's stowed.

149:21:03 Scott: Okay. (Pause)

149:21:09 Irwin: You're getting a little farther in. Now you can raise up. Dave? You can start to raise up.

149:21:16 Scott: Okay.

149:21:20 Irwin: Dave, shift a little to your right, if you can.

149:21:22 Scott: Voila. (Pause) Ooohhh!

149:21:27 Irwin: Lean forward, you're hung up on the RCU.

149:21:32 Scott: Oh, really? Thank you.

149:21:34 Irwin: Okay. You're...

149:21:37 Scott: Am I still hung up?

149:21:38 Irwin: No. If you ...Let's see; swing to your right, if you can.

149:21:42 Scott: Okay.

149:21:43 Irwin: There you go. (Pause)

149:21:46 Scott: Okay? Get turned around here. (Pause)

149:21:53 Irwin: Okay. (Reading from Surface 8-1) (PLSS) "Prime Water, close."

149:21:59 Scott: Okay.

149:22:00 Irwin: Now, if you can get mine. (Can you) get yours?

149:22:02 Scott: Oh, I...I think I can probably get it.

[With the suits inflated in the close confines of the LM cabin, reaching their own PLSS controls is not easy. Here, Dave think's he can get his own.]
149:22:03 Irwin: I can get it easier, probably.

149:22:04 Scott: Get it then. (Pause) Can you?

149:22:14 Irwin: Yeah, it's closed.

[Jim has closed Dave's PLSS water valve.]
149:22:16 Scott: Okay. Can you get yours?

149:22:17 Irwin: No, I'm going to need you to get mine.

149:22:19 Scott: Well, I'm going to have to get the door partially closed here. (Long Pause) Gee, it's so much nicer outside.

149:22:37 Irwin: Do you want me to turn?

149:22:39 Scott: Yeah, you'd better. If you can. Boy, you're really jammed in there, Jim.

149:22:47 Irwin: Yeah.

149:22:50 Scott: Okay. (Hearing a warning tone) Must be my water. (Pause, while Dave looks at his RCU indicators).

[The sensor system in Dave's EMU is telling him that there is no water flow to the sublimator. Clearly, the warning system is still working.]
149:22:55 Scott: No flags, (but) I've got a tone. (Still trying to get Jim's water valve) And I sure can't reach it from here.

149:23:01 Irwin: How did we do it yesterday?

149:23:03 Scott: Turn left. Can you come forward and turn left? Turn right. Just turn right the way you were, maybe all the way around. (Pause)

149:23:13 Irwin: (Can you see) what I'm hung up on.

149:23:19 Scott: Can't really see anything. Come forward. Oh, I know. Go up. Up. (Pause)

149:23:28 Irwin: What is it?

149:23:30 Scott: It's the tool harness (that's caught) on your bar. (Pause)

[Scott - "Wasn't there a bar in there that we hold on to. Isn't there a bar that you hold on to when you land?"]

[Dave may be referring to the "crash bars" which ran along the lower window sills as shown in a Grumman cabin sketch and in Apollo 11 photo AS11-36-5392.]

[Jones - "Wouldn't be surprised. And that would be sort of the right place, at the right-hand corner for him. And that would make sense with how you were telling him to move his PLSS."]

[Scott, from a 1996 letter - "There were also vertical 'posts' adjacent to the handcontrollers to hold on to."]

[The LMP 'post' can be seen just to the right of the AGS keypad in Apollo 11 photo AS11-36-5392.]

[Scott - "There was a discussion (during LM design in the mid 1960s) about, when you land, what does the guy on the right hold on to? 'Cause he can't hold on to the handcontrollers. The guy on the left has the handcontrollers and isn't going to let the guy on the right hold on to the handcontrollers. Isn't there a bar in there that he held on to?"]

[Jones - "Stability for the bump."]

[Scott - "Yup. Wouldn't you want to hang on to something if you were coming in for a landing?"]

[Jones - "Dropping at three feet per second? You bet."]

[Scott - "I'd want to hang on to something."]

149:23:34 Irwin: Still stuck?

149:23:35 Scott: If you could go up and turn right, you'll unhook. Up and turn right. Yeah. No, you're not...You're going to have to get your water by yourself, I'm afraid, until we get depressed.

149:23:45 Irwin: Well, we can depress with the water on.

149:23:47 Scott: Yeah.

149:23:48 Irwin: We'll just get a little water in the cabin.

149:23:50 Scott: We'll have to, because I'm not (garbled)...Okay. [Reading] "Post-EVA. Water closed. Forward hatch closed and locked." Okay. Let's get that. (Pause)

149:24:05 Irwin: I have to get unlocked here, though, to get around.

149:24:07 Scott: I know it. (Pause) Okay. Let's see if I can tell. Closed and locked. I think. (Pause)

149:24:19 Irwin: Unless you can ...You can't reach around me to get the (cabin repress valve and circuit breaker)

149:24:23 Scott: You have to raise your right side up and go to your left. It would be the best thing you could do. (Pause) That's it. Keep coming. Up and left; up with the right and over to your left. That a boy! Good show. There you go.

149:24:37 Irwin: (Garbled) Dave?

149:24:38 Scott: Yeah, you're clear.

149:24:39 Irwin: Okay.

149:24:40 Scott: Now...Let me get the...(To Jim) Easy does it! Go easy.

149:24:48 Irwin: Yeah, I am. (Long Pause)

149:25:00 Scott: Okay? (Pause)

149:25:03 Irwin: Okay. You can read to me.

149:25:05 Scott: Okay. Well, maybe I can get your water, if you go forward. Can you move into the corner?

149:25:12 Irwin: Yeah. I can rotate around to the right, Dave.

149:25:16 Scott: Okay. You've got to move.

149:25:19 Irwin: Move which way? In?

149:25:21 Scott: Into the corner, because I can't get my arm up to your control there. (Pause) Now, we've got it. Okay. Prime feedwater is Off.

149:25:45 Irwin: Good.

149:25:46 Scott: I think.

149:25:48 Allen: Good show.

[Scott, from the 1971 Technical Debrief - "We again had trouble getting hold of the water valves. That is probably because both our hands were hurting at the end of the EVA. It's just hard to feel with them."]
149:25:49 Scott: Now, if you can come around and get the hatch (dump valve).

149:25:50 Irwin: I got it. It's Auto.

149:25:51 Scott: Okay. Okay. "Both to Auto", and then "Cabin Repress (valve) to Auto".

149:25:58 Irwin: Cabin Repress, that was the first one?

149:26:00 Scott: Yes, sir. "Cabin Repress to Auto". Okay. And, "CB(16): ECS Cabin Repress, closed". (Pause; then sound of repress starts)

149:26:14 Irwin: Cabin Repress, closed.

149:26:19 Scott: Okay. Coming up. 0.5 (psi) (Long Pause)

149:26:48 Scott: 2.0. (Long Pause)

149:27:21 Scott: 4.1. Okay. We're about there. (The sound of repress ends) "Press Reg A and B to Cabin." (Pause) Get them?

149:27:37 Irwin: Yeah.

149:27:38 Scott: And "PLSS O2 to Off".

149:27:40 Irwin: A and B to Cabin.

MP3 Audio Clip ( 17 min 26 sec ) by David Shaffer

149:27:51 Scott: My PLSS O2 is Off. Cabin warning light should be off. Let me check it here. (Pause)

149:28:01 Irwin: And my O2 is Off.

149:28:03 Scott: Okay. "Verify cabin pressure stable at 4.6 to 5." And we're just about 4.5 or 6. (Pause) Slowly coming up. Okay, (paraphrasing) "Use the purge valve to depress the PGA if you need to do that", which I guess we don't. Okay, "Verify EVA CB configuration." You can get in your corner for a minute, and let me turn around.

149:28:33 Irwin: Okay. (Pause) Eww. Mine's verified.

149:28:42 Scott: Okay. Let me take a look. (Pause) Okay, mine's verified. Okay, "CB(16) ECS: Suit Fan number 2, closed."

149:29:02 Irwin: Suit Fan 2, closed.

149:29:04 Scott: Okay, "Suit Fan Delta-P, closed."

149:29:05 Irwin: Closed.

149:29:06 Scott: "ECS caution (and Water) Sep comp lights" come on. Those should go out. (Pause) Okay, ECS and Comp(onent) lights are out.

149:29:21 Scott: "Doff the gloves, stow on comm panel."

149:29:23 Irwin: (Delighted) Oh, good!! (Long Pause)

[Jones - "I gather that it was the forearms and the hands that got sore."]

[Scott - "Not forearm. Just the hands - as we've discussed before. I didn't have any forearm problems, and I don't think Jim had any. And only the fingers; not the hand. The only problem we had was our fingers were so sore."]

[After I turned the tape recorder off, we started talking about differences in hand soreness and fatigue between zero-g and one-sixth g.]

[Jones - "I thought part of the problem was that, for example, on the long Apollo 17 traverse out to Station 2, Jack's camera bracket came loose and he had to hold the camera. The way he described it was that, in order to grip the camera, he had to close his fingers against the pressure of the suit and maintain that pressure for virtually that whole drive. And so, his fingers got tired just from holding his fingers around the camera."]

[Scott - "Well, he's got a mass in the one-sixth-g environment that's bouncing around, right? If you're in a zero-g environment, all you have to do is touch it to hold it. You can have your gloves in the neutral position - which is not closed and not open. If you just barely touch it, you will keep a massive object stable. It takes no effort at all. That's why Kathryn Thornton can go out and hold this big solar panel (during the Hubble Repair Mission)..."]

[Jones - "Yet I noticed that, every once in a while, she would take her hands off of the handle on the solar panel and wiggle her fingers."]

[Scott - "That's probably because you don't want to have them in the same position all the time. In zero g, there's just hardly any physical challenge, unless you're trying to manhandle some big, physical object. 'Cause it just doesn't go anywhere. It'll stay right there. Take your hands off, It won't go anywhere. But in one-sixth g, if Jack lets go of the camera, it's gone! It's a step-function difference. Coming back in, we used to wonder if you could tell 0.05-g. You could tell 0.01. It's just so different. Mr. Newton figured that out."]

["You could hold it tight. You could really grip it. But you're just gripping yourself. It's not going to go anywhere. Now, if you want to start moving something big, it doesn't take much force to move it. But once it starts going, then you've got to stop it."]

[Jones - "I need to ask Pete and Al about hand fatigue in the two environments."]

[Scott - "Everybody who's flown has a lot of zero-g experience. Not necessarily suited and pressurized. In Gemini, the suit had one rest position, spread eagle. When Apollo came, we had convolutes, which made it much, much better."]

149:29:47 Allen: Dave and Jim, while you're enjoying that (freedom from wearing the gloves), stand by to copy a new EVA record: 7 hours plus 12 minutes plus 53 seconds. And I'll be prepared to sign your sporting certificates a little later.

149:30:06 Scott: Oh, how about that! Thank you, Joe! (Pause)

['Sporting certificates' is a reference to certifications of record performances during flight by the Federation Aeronautique Internationale.]

[Jones - "At some point after the mission, NASA put in the paper work to claim the records for you."]

[Scott - "Yeah. It's funny; for some arbitrary reason, they picked different records for different flights. You have to break each record by some amount of time, or whatever, in order to have it recognized; but there was not a continuity of records through the flights. They would put in one set of records on one flight and another set on another flight. And I don't know why. I mean, each flight had a lot of stuff over the previous flight but all the records that were set on the J missions relative to the H missions were not set on 15 and 16 and 17. Some were set on 15, some on 16, and some on 17. And I don't know why. Maybe it's 'share the wealth'. Beats me. But you would have thought 17 would have almost all the records, because they did the most work outside. But I don't think they do."]

["The guy who did all that was Carl Huss. I just looked at the list one time and thought it rather interesting that not every flight addressed every record it could."]

149:30:16 Scott: Okay, gloves off. (Pause)

149:30:20 Irwin: (Garbled)

149:30:22 Scott: Did you get them both off?

149:30:23 Irwin: Yeah.

149:30:25 Scott: Okay. "Doff the helmets with visors; and lower the shades. Stow in helmet bag." (Long Pause)

149:31:01 Irwin: Whew! Oh, that feels good!

149:31:09 Scott: Okay. Let's get your (garbled). Let me get this up.

149:31:14 Irwin: Can you reach it? (Long Pause)

149:32:07 Scott: Okay.

149:32:09 Irwin: Safety's on the dump valve.

149:32:12 Scott: Okay. "Verify safety. Descent water valve to open."

149:32:16 Irwin: Descent water. Open.

149:32:21 Scott: Okay. Remove purge valve; stow in the purse. (Pause) Ho, ho, ho, ho!

149:32:37 Irwin: Kind a stuck, isn't it?

149:32:38 Scott: "Kind a stuck" it is. Guess we got a little dirt in here. Guess we'll have to work on that later.

149:32:49 Irwin: Yeah. Here's mine, Dave.

149:32:51 Scott: Okay. Dusty. Get those hoses off. Okay, "Disconnect OPS O2 hose." (Long Pause)

149:33:29 Irwin: Okay; mine's removed. (Pause)

149:33:39 Scott: Okay; mine's off. And let's see. "Connect LM O2 hoses; red-to-red and blue-to-blue." (Long Pause)

149:34:17 Irwin: It's in your way. Now turn around and I'll see if I can get...

149:34:20 Scott: Okay. (Pause) Probably should have dusted you off better. (Long Pause)

149:35:04 Irwin: (It isn't) locked. Lock it again.

149:35:06 Scott: Huh?

149:35:07 Irwin: Push it in again.

149:35:08 Scott: Okay. (Pause) You just got a magic touch. That was easy. How did you do it?

149:35:27 Irwin: Try it out. It was already unlocked. (It was) sliding, hard.

149:35:30 Scott: Okay. Oh. Yeah.

149:35:41 Irwin: It helps. Having them back that far.

149:35:43 Scott: Did it? Yeah. Yeah, you didn't have any trouble getting it off today, did you? (Long Pause)

149:36:10 Irwin: I'll have to put them this way. (Long Pause)

149:36:26 Scott: Okay; let's get a little suit flow.

149:36:29 Irwin: Stow mine, I'll have you plug mine up.

[Jim's use of the word "plug" suggests that he is having trouble installing a seal in the PLSS/OPS hoses.]
149:36:31 Scott: Okay. Yeah; I thought you had them. Sorry. (Pause)
[Jim is having trouble getting his LM oxygen hoses connected.]
149:36:45 Scott: Okay.

149:36:48 Irwin: Better to come the other way. Let me pass them the other way.

149:36:51 Scott: Yeah. Okay.

149:36:59 Irwin: Got them?

149:37:01 Scott: No, I don't, Jim. Where are they?

149:37:03 Irwin: I'm going to get the water here.

149:37:09 Scott: Why don't you turn around, back into your little corner. Okay. (Long Pause)

[Dave and I discussed the factors that led to the choice of LM cabin size in the final design.]

[Jones - "Am I right in assuming that the volume of the LM is constrained primarily by the Saturn V shroud? Increasing the volume a little bit wouldn't do much to the weight, but it sure would make it tough to stick it in the Saturn V shroud."]

[Scott - "Yeah. But you'd have to go back early (in the design process). Somebody had to decide how much room you needed for two guys - long, long, long ago. And then they probably designed the Saturn shroud around that, because the system was totally integrated. And that decision was probably made by somebody without any knowledge of the suits or the PLSSs - and they made a pretty good guess. The general configuration was frozen in '64 or '65, something like that."]

[After I turned the tape off, Dave said that it would have made a great difference if the diameter of the forward section of the cabin had been a twelve inches greater - 104 inches instead of 92. (See Figure 1-6 from the Grumman LM Document LMA790-3-LM.)]

[Scott - "But that's back to historical perspective and what did they knew at the time they designed into the LM. They probably said, 'Okay, a guy is this big, and the pressure suit will probably be a little bit bigger, so will give him a little bit more.' And that's right. 'Cause, if you get in the LM or a simulator without a suit on, it's pretty comfortable. And they didn't know much about suits in the old days. Gosh, it must have been '63 when they did that. Leonov didn't go out until '65, and the Gemini suits were really different from Apollo. So they really didn't have much knowledge. Six inches more (in radius) would have been great, but they made a pretty good guess."]

[Jones - "And six inches less would have been a disaster."]

[Scott - "Goodness, gracious, yes!"]

[Jones - "You were at least functional. Jack has told me that, when he and Gene had the suits off, they basically stood all the time. They didn't sit."]

[Scott - "There wasn't any place to sit. Aft engine cover."]

[Jones - "But you had the suits on there."]

[Scott - "But it's no big deal to stand in one-sixth g."]

[Readers interested in a good introduction to the development of the Apollo suits should consult Lillian D Kozlowsi's U.S. Space Gear.]

149:37:57 Irwin: Ran out of my suit.

149:37:58 Scott: What?

149:38:00 Irwin: Water came blowing out. (Wonder where) the water's coming from?

149:38:04 Scott: Water?

149:38:07 Irwin: (Garbled) water; it's been blowing out my helmet duct.

149:38:13 Scott: You'll have to back up, Jim.

[Dave wants Jim to back away from him so that he can get a look at Jim's neckring.]
149:38:16 Scott: Huh. That (PLSS feed)water off?

149:38:19 Irwin: (Garbled) check.

149:38:24 Scott: It is coming out. Yeah, you're right. Let me check it.

149:38:33 Irwin: I don't think it's off. (Long Pause)

149:38:46 Scott: Whew; it sure wasn't. Up and off. (Pause) Backwards from the rest of the program. (Long Pause)

[At 160:10:54, immediately after wake-up for EVA-3, Jim explains that his PLSS feedwater valve was not shut off at repress and, consequently, he lost some water from the sublimator. What Jim means by "helmet duct" is probably the opening in the PLSS cover behind his helmet which gives the sublimator direct access to the lunar vacuum. Dave's "backwards from the rest of the program" indicates that the normal Off position for Apollo switches is Down.]

[Scott, from the 1971 Technical Debrief - "Wasn't this the time that yours really didn't get turned off, and didn't we get a little bit of water in the cabin?"]

[Irwin, from the 1971 Technical Debrief - "I think it happened on both EVAs. On the first one, you turned it off, and I must have bumped it on something and turned it back on."]

[Scott, from the 1971 Technical Debrief - "Well, maybe I didn't get it off."]

[Irwin, from the 1971 Technical Debrief - "No. It happened both times, I think; because you turned it off both times and then, after we repressured, it was on again. So I must have been bumping it on something."]

[Scott, from the 1971 Technical Debrief - "You felt the water in your suit, didn't you?"]

[Irwin, from the 1971 Technical Debrief - "Yes."]

[Scott, from the 1971 Technical Debrief - "That was a clue."]

[Irwin, from the 1971 Technical Debrief - "I felt it and heard it gurgling and running down my right leg, so there was good reason to dry the suits."]

[Scott, from the 1971 Technical Debrief - "PLSS water, huh?"]

[Irwin, from the 1971 Technical Debrief - "Yes, it was really water."]

[Scott, from the 1971 Technical Debrief - "That's true. It would be a good idea to dry those suits (between EVAs). It wasn't any problem, but once you felt the water and we got the water turned off for sure, then it stopped running. I don't think we ever accumulated enough water in the cabin to even see; it was mostly in your suit."]

[Irwin, from the 1971 Technical Debrief - "I don't now. A little bit of that water on the floor there might have reduced the amount of dust on the floor. The floor was always kind of moist."]

[Scott, from the 1971 Technical Debrief - "Yes, that's true. I might comment that lunar dust is very soluble in water. It seems to wash off very easily. I would say if you ever have a connector problem that was really stiff, you could take the water gun (photo by Mick Hyde) and spray it and loosen it up."]

149:39:19 Scott: Yeah, you're going to have to go over here, Jim, it won't reach you. Other way. It won't reach you that way, Jim. (Pause) No, you ...Just...

149:39:33 Irwin: Turn?

149:39:34 Scott: Yeah. No way.

149:39:40 Irwin: Turn...Dave, I'm coming that way, maybe...Don't.

149:39:52 Scott: Wait. Okay. (Long Pause)

[For the next several minutes, the NASA Public Affairs commentator summarizes the EVA for the press. One point that interested Dave as we listen to the tape was a comparison between the physical effort expended during the two EVAs. The Apollo 15 Mission Report gives average figures of 1097 and 1002 BTU/hr for EVA-1 and EVA-2, respectively, for Dave and 976 and 808 BTU/hr for Jim. The amount of time spent driving - a very restful activity - is a major factor; but so, too, is the efficiency that comes with experience.]

[Jones - "In talking about the difference in BTUs between EVA-1 and EVA-2, I would propose that you were getting used to the environment and working more efficiently."]

[Scott - "Could be. Did the other flights show the same trend?"]

[Jones - "Generally, yes."]

[Scott - "That would be interesting for future planners because, if you do accommodate that much, that says, in future missions, the first EVA should be relatively short, so you don't burn up a lot of your resources. And then stretch it out as you accommodate, because you obviously become much more efficient. I wonder if anybody's taken a look at that. And you're probably right. You accommodate to the situation. You have limited BTU's, so take a couple of days to get accommodated and then stretch it out."]

[Jones - "And you guys did an awful lot of ALSEP..."]

[Scott - "I did a lot more work on 2 than I did on 1. I mean, geez, that drill stuff was a lot more work. And less BTU's. That's interesting. (Chuckling) We got the suits broken in, so they worked better."]

149:40:03 Irwin: Be easier to go in through the top. (Long Pause)

149:40:28 Scott: Can't do it unless I take these off. (Long Pause)

[During this comm pause, they finally get Jim's LM oxygen hoses connected.]

[In a 1996 letter, Dave suggested that the troubles they have been having may have been due to "the accumulation of lunar 'material' around the connector."]

149:40:49 Scott: Okay. Ear plugs. (Pause)
[The ear "plugs" contain the audio elements that produce the sound that Dave and Jim hear during the EVA.]

[Scott - "Those were specially molded earplugs. Did you know that? Individually molded."]

[Jones - "Well, you were wearing them for eight hours at a stretch. Did you have individually molded earplugs in the military?"]

[Scott - "Didn't have earplugs. Had earphones."]

149:40:56 Scott: "PGA diverter valve, horizontal."

149:40:58 Irwin: Horizontal.

149:40:59 Scott: "Suit Flow, for both; PLSS Pump, Off to the left; PLSS Fan, Off to the left. Disconnect the PLSS H2O from the PGA and connect the LM H2O." (Pause)

149:41:22 Irwin: You've disconnected me already, huh?

149:41:26 Scott: The water, yeah.

149:41:27 Irwin: (Garbled) the water connected...(Pause) Connected.

[They are now finished with Surface 8-1 and are now starting 8-2.]
149:41:40 Scott: Okay. Okay, it's connected. "PLSS Mode, both, to O." (Long Pause)

149:42:40 Scott: Okay, the Audio panels. VHF, A to Receive and B Off. ICS/PT...

[Very Long Comm Break. During this Comm Break, they will perform a PLSS oxygen charge and doff the PLSSs and OPSs as per Surface 8-2 and 8-3.]


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