Apollo 15 Lunar Surface Journal

Return to the LM

Corrected Transcript and Commentary Copyright © 1996 by Eric M. Jones.
All rights reserved.
Scan credits in the Image Library
Last revised 16 June 2014.

MP3 Audio Clip ( 12 min 17 sec ) by David Shaffer

166:27:38 Scott: Hey, Joe, are you planning a mare stop on the way back?

166:27:42 Allen: Dave, we're standing by for a mark when you're rolling. And we'd like for you to press on back towards the drill site. We've got a procedure for you to separate two sections of the deep stem from the other two sections, and we're going to carry the two halves into the LM that way.

166:28:04 Scott: Okay.

166:28:06 Allen: And the mare site, Dave; we will do a good mare site, but fairly near the LM.

166:28:15 Scott: All righty. (Pause) Whew! (Pause)

166:28:30 Allen: Are you buckling up for safety?

166:28:35 Scott: Yeah, man. We always do that. Okay; switches coming on. (Pause)

166:28:49 Scott: Okay, Joe. We're moving.

166:28:51 Allen: Okay.

166:28:56 Irwin: Right to 093.

166:28:58 Scott: Okay. (Pause)

[This is the bearing to the LM and, if they follow that heading, they should be aimed directly for the spacecraft.]
166:29:02 Allen: Sounds about...

166:29:03 Irwin: ... give it a turn and go by slow.

166:29:04 Allen: ...right, and you might pick up your Rover tracks before long.

166:29:12 Scott: Oh, what a big mountain that Hadley is! Whew!

166:29:17 Irwin: Yeah, it's beautiful. Might want to swing a little more to the right, here, Dave.

166:29:22 Scott: Yeah. Let me go around to the right of this...Sure we can get between those two craters ahead of us there. Yeah, think I'll come this way.

166:29:39 Irwin: Yes, the mountains up here are truly beautiful.

166:29:46 Allen: Rog, Jim. We copy you loud and clear. (Pause)

166:29:56 Scott: Okay, now come to the right. (Pause)

166:30:05 Irwin: 097, Dave.

166:30:07 Scott: Okay.

166:30:08 Irwin: That's a friendly shallow depression there at...

166:30:10 Scott: Yeah, we'll go south of that. (Long Pause)

166:30:24 Allen: Jim, this is Houston.

166:30:25 Scott: Boy, it's just over hill and dale, isn't it?

[Scott, from a 1996 letter - "Irwin's Dunes."]
166:30:27 Irwin: Yeah. (To Houston) Go ahead, Joe.

166:30:32 Allen: Roger. If you can take your...

166:30:33 Irwin: Go ahead.

166:30:34 Allen: ...eyes off the scenery and the road for a moment, I could explain the core-stem separation procedure, if you'd like it now.

166:30:48 Irwin: Fire away.

166:30:54 Allen: Rog. Your choice. I can give you the procedure now or we can wait until we get past...Oh, okay. Sorry, didn't understand. We think you can put the four sections of the core stem in the vise. Jim, you move it horizontally, put horizontal torque on the stem and tighten it up in the vise, while, Dave, you use the wrench and try to separate it.

[By "horizontal", Joe means that Jim should push one end of the string either fore or aft to force the vise to grip.]
166:31:25 Scott: Well, we tried that, Joe, but we'll try it again. It's worth another go. That was just about what we tried the last time, by trying to put horizontal and vertical forces and everything else on the vise, and the vise just doesn't seem to grip like it should, not nearly as well as the wrench does. And I don't really know why. It might be a little loose.

166:31:47 Allen: Okay, Dave. Copy that. It may also be that it's quite dusty, and the brush might help you out there.

166:31:56 Scott: Okay. We'll try that. Didn't try that.

166:32:00 Allen: And to set your minds at ease, we think that even if you can't separate it into two pieces, we can get the whole thing into the LM. So we'll bring it home anyway. We'd like it in two separate pieces, though.

166:32:15 Scott: Well, I guarantee you we're not going to leave it here now (laughing) after we got that much invested into it. Oop! (Pause)

166:32:32 Irwin: We're looking directly east now as we head back to the LM...Did you put your visor down?

166:32:38 Scott: Haven't yet, but I think I just might.

166:32:40 Irwin: Boy, that Sun is really fierce. (Pause)

[In this passage, Jim seems to be using 'directly east' to mean up-Sun. The Sun is actually about 20 degrees south of east at this time. Jim could look at the heading indicator and see that the Sun is not 'directly east' but, given the fact that they are following their tracks home to the LM, that level of precision is completely unnecessary.]
166:32:49 Irwin: And I can see, as I look to the east, several places up the slope [of] Big Rock Mountain where there're outcrops exposed.

166:33:04 Allen: Roger, Jim. Copy...

166:33:05 Irwin: One about a quarter of the way up directly east from us...That was Big Rock Mountain.

166:33:06 Allen: And the name of the mountain again, please.

166:33:12 Irwin: That was Big Rock Mountain.

166:33:14 Scott: You know, Joe. Big Rock-o Candy Mountain.

166:33:18 Allen: Roger; we copy. (Pause) And do we have a big smile here in the MOCR.

166:33:30 Irwin: (Laughs)

[Scott - "I think we decided, at some point, that we would call that 'Big Rock Mountain', after Rocco Petrone. He picked the landing site. He made the decision."]

[Jones - "Were you involved in the site selection process?"]

[Scott - "Sure."]

[Jones - "Tell me about it."]

[Scott - "We had, what, four sites? There was Marius Hills, Davey Rille and a couple of others, right after Apollo 12. Rocco finally had a meeting in Washington and said, 'We're going to make a decision, and nobody leaves the room, even for lunch.' And the contest was between Hadley and Marius Hills. And the two opponents debated the issue and Rocco went around the room. And then he asked me, 'What do you think?' And I'd been brainwashed pretty well by then, and I said, 'Hadley Rille. Absolutely. No question.' And, after a little more discussion, Rocco said, 'We're going to Hadley.' And it was at a point where they had to have a decision in order to get all the planning done, to get there on time. But there was strong favoritism for Marius Hills."]

[Jones - "Because they looked volcanic."]

[Scott - "Yeah. And, boy, at one point, that was the leading contender. And then Hadley came in. So I was involved. Not as part of the site selection team; but certainly I had a voice."]

[Jones - "And this would have been how long before the flight?"]

[Scott - "I don't remember."]

[Jones - "There'll be memos around."]

[Scott - "Especially that one, 'cause that was a real debate. Heavy duty debate. One thing that people don't appreciate these days is how much effort goes into selecting a site, and how many people have input and how many different opinions there are. And, over all, the best procedure is to have maybe three people, without the whole world. Everybody wants to go to different place, for different reasons."]

[Jones - "And you've only got about a half dozen opportunities."]

[Scott - "And part of the reason for Hadley is just the spectacular scenery. Which is why, when they go back, Tsiolkovsky has to be a leading contender, just because of the spectacular scenery. Tycho. Aristarchus Plateau. The stuff that looks good, usually is good. The stuff that's subtle geology is usually not as good as the stuff that's not subtle geology. It's sort of like an airplane. If it looks like it'll fly good, it flies good. If you look at Hadley, from the character of the scene, there's got to be a lot of stuff there. Besides, the scenery is good for the folks back home, and that's very important."]

[Jones - "One of the troubles, I've contended, with Apollo's PR is that most people only saw 11."]

[Scott - "Yeah. People get bored."]

[Jones - "And it's a very uninteresting place, visually."]

[Scott - "Yeah. Flat nothing."]

[Jones - "Which makes it a great place for the first landing."]

[Scott - "Rocco did a lot. He was a major decision maker and did a good job."]

[Jones - "He wasn't afraid of making decisions."]

[Scott - "Right."]

[Based on Jim's description, Big Rock Mountain is probably the peak that forms the background in a mosaic of 500-mm shots ( 3.2 Mb ) Dave took at the LM at the end of EVA-3. The frames are AS15-89-12165 to 12171.]

166:33:35 Scott: I'm not going in there, Jim.

166:33:37 Irwin: I hope not. (Laughs) Haven't picked up our tracks yet...Think we're probably still a little north of them.

166:33:44 Scott: Yeah. Because we came 3/10ths north.

166:33:50 Irwin: We're heading 105. Range (is) 1.4.

166:33:56 Allen: Copy, and sounds good.

[These readouts put them near BU.0/67.6 or, if we apply the 8-degree bearing correction, near BT.3/67.4. Clearly, they drove around the north side of Scarp Crater.]
166:34:01 Irwin: Can't see the LM today. (Pause)

166:34:06 Scott: Oh, look at the mountains today, Jim, when they're all sunlit; isn't that beautiful?

166:34:09 Irwin: Really is.

166:34:10 Scott: By golly, that's just super! It's, you know, unreal. (Pause)

166:34:20 Irwin: Dave, I'm reminded of a favorite Biblical passage from Psalms. "I look unto the hills, from whence cometh my help." But of course, we get quite a bit from Houston, too. (Pause) Okay, we're heading 140.

166:34:43 Scott: We've got to go around this...

166:34:45 Irwin: Yeah.

166:34:46 Scott: ...crater here, ol' buddy. (Long Pause)

166:35:02 Irwin: What's your estimate as to when we'll be able to see the LM?

166:35:07 Scott: Who's, mine?

166:35:08 Irwin: Yeah, do you think we'll be able to see it at 1 kilometer?

166:35:10 Scott: Nope. I think we're going...

166:35:12 Irwin: I...

166:35:13 Scott: ...to be going up and down the valleys here.

166:35:15 Irwin: ...No, I think I see the top of it, Dave; at 12 o'clock.

166:35:17 Scott: Really?

166:35:18 Irwin: Yeah. Just barely see the top of it.

166:35:20 Scott: Okay, well, you look far-range, and I'll look near-range.

166:35:24 Irwin: Yeah. And there are our tracks.

166:35:27 Scott: Yeah, we got our tracks. How about that?

166:35:29 Irwin: And the Rover's (sic, means LM) a little black blob over there at about 12:30. That's exactly where the Nav system says it is.

166:35:46 Scott: I think we'd do better going straight ahead on, don't you?

166:35:49 Irwin: Yeah. We just got that one depression over that next ridge. Might want to just drive through it, huh?

166:35:55 Scott: Yeah, let's see how we do it.

166:35:56 Irwin: Wasn't that the deep one, though, that had the crater in the lower part?

[The crater in question is centered at about BS.7/71.5.]
166:36:02 Scott: Yeah. It's saying (bearing) 093 and heading 08(0), so coming right's going to help us some. (Pause) No, we're okay.

166:36:17 Irwin: Yeah.

166:36:19 Scott: Good shape.

166:36:20 Irwin: Yeah. This is a better route than we used coming out.

166:36:22 Scott: Yeah. (Long Pause) Wish we could get that 16-millimeter camera to work.

166:36:37 Irwin: I'll change mags on it.

166:36:39 Scott: Yeah.

166:36:41 Irwin: See if that helps. (Pause)

166:36:50 Scott: How about that for maneuvering, huh? (Pause)

166:36:57 Irwin: Slick! (Pause)

166:37:03 Scott: This thing would really be great in shirtsleeves up here, you know it? (Pause)

[During the early to mid 1960s, the Marshall Spaceflight Center in Huntsville worked with industry on the design of a much larger Rover, one with an enclosed cabin to provide the astronauts with a shirtsleeve environment during long traverses. However, such a rover could have been delivered to the Moon only with a cargo-only version of the LM.]
166:37:12 Allen: Jim, concerning that 16-millimeter camera, if you're changing the mag out, you might try the one-frame- per-second trick at the beginning. It worked before.

166:37:25 Irwin: Yeah, I did that this morning, Joe, on this mag. It...

166:37:30 Allen: Roger. You've got plenty of mags.

166:37:31 Irwin: ...didn't work; I'll try it again, though.

166:37:32 Allen: Keep trying.

166:37:35 Irwin: Yeah, we will. (Pause)

166:37:42 Scott: By the way, do you want us to bring back those jammed mags or shall we chuck 'em?

166:37:53 Allen: Let me check with SPAN. (Pause)

166:38:03 Scott: Boy, look at the few big boulders up there. Yeah, that's pretty neat.

[Dave may be refering the the large boulders near the summit of Big Rock Mountain that can be seen in a detail from AS15-89-12169.]
166:38:07 Irwin: Up on the slope of...

166:38:08 Scott: Yeah.

166:38:09 Irwin: It's appropriately named, don't you think?

166:38:11 Scott: Yes, it is. (Pause) It's the only one around here.

166:38:26 Allen: Dave and Jim, we think it will be just as easy for you to bring them (meaning the 16-mm magazines) back, and we'll troubleshoot them.

166:38:34 Scott: All right, we'll do that. (Long Pause) You know, so far in the past, our Nav system has always been biased pointing us to the right a little bit more than we should, so I'm going to bias it a tad left here. Because I know if we get too far left, we'll pick up our tracks. I've noticed on the other two trips when we got back, it was asking us to head 8 degrees or so to the right. (Pause)

MP3 Audio Clip ( 12 min 06 sec ) by David Shaffer

166:39:22 Irwin: See our tracks running to the east there (at the) 12 o'clock position. Just over that next ridge, we should...

166:39:33 Scott: Yeah, you're right.

166:39:34 Irwin: ...should see the LM.

166:39:35 Scott: Oh, we cut a big chunk out.

166:39:36 Irwin: Yeah. (Pause) Range, now, of 0.5. (Long Pause)

166:40:05 Scott: Hey, this shade really helps. It's no problem at all driving up-Sun, with the center visor down. (Pause)

[Dave is referring to the center visor at the top of the helmet which was first used on Apollo 14. Photo AS12-49-7278 shows that Al Bean did not have a central visor while photo AS14-68- 9405 shows that Al Shepard did have one. AS14-64- 9059 shows Ed Mitchell with his Central Visor raised. Finally, AS15-92- 12424 shows Jim with his visor partly raised.]
166:40:19 Scott: In fact, I reckon we're making pretty good time.

166:40:22 Irwin: Going about 11 clicks there.

166:40:24 Scott: Yeah. (Pause)

166:40:28 Irwin: There's the LM, 12:30.

166:40:30 Scott: How about that! By golly, we must have come just about straight back. And the bearing - yeah, it's great.- says 096, and I'm...

166:40:39 Irwin: Hey, let me take a picture right here.

166:40:40 Scott: Oh, yeah!

166:40:41 Irwin: Slow down a little bit...

166:40:42 Scott: Yes, let me stop on the rim here and point you.

166:40:46 Irwin: Okay.

166:40:47 Scott: Oh, isn't that pretty! Okay. Oop. Too much, huh? Let me go around. (Pause) There, how's that? (Pause) Little more?

166:41:04 Irwin: You're okay. Swing it.

166:41:06 Scott: Okay. (Pause)

166:41:15 Irwin: Okay.

166:41:16 Scott: Still on a (f-stop setting of)5.6?

166:41:17 Irwin: Yeah.

[Jim's first LM picture is AS15-82- 11192.]
166:41:19 Scott: That's a super picture.

166:41:21 Irwin: Swing it a little more to the right and let me make sure...

166:41:23 Scott: Okay, there you go.

166:41:26 Irwin: Got it.

[After Dave turned slightly to the right, Jim took AS15-82-11193 and 11194. Dave Byrne has combined these with 11192 in a mini-pan.]
166:41:27 Scott: Okay. (Pause) Let's see. We'll go find the ALSEP site; I think we've been there before.

166:41:37 Allen: And Dave and Jim...

166:41:38 Irwin: Boy, this ALSEP... (Laughs)

166:41:39 Allen: ...I want you to notice how we planned the fourth stop...

166:41:40 Scott: No, I don't think it was.

166:41:41 Allen: ...at the ALSEP site for you.

166:41:46 Scott: (Hearing Joe; Laughs) Yeah, it's got to be a new all-time record. It will probably stand forever.

166:41:53 Allen: Roger. It'll certainly...

166:41:54 Scott: Sure would like to do some more geology up here someday.

166:41:55 Allen: ...scare the competition.

166:42:02 Irwin: Yeah, we didn't get a chance to get up the Northern Complex and see Pluton, Icarus...

166:42:06 Scott: I know it!

166:42:07 Irwin: ...Eagle Crest. Doggone.

166:42:10 Scott: All the good places.

166:42:11 Irwin: Yeah, the really big surprise was up there!

166:42:19 Scott: Jim, I'll go around the north here and avoid the dust on our trusty ALSEP. (Pause)

166:42:37 Scott: Hey, that's...That's a pretty nice picture right there, Jim. Let me point you...

166:42:41 Irwin: Swing around there, I'll take some.

166:42:42 Scott: That's really pretty! What kind of mag...Oh, you got black and white. Better change that mag, buddy. (Pause) Okay; there you go, right there. (Pause) Got it?

166:43:02 Irwin: Yeah, I'll change it out when we stop. (Pause)

[Jim's final approach picture is AS15-82- 11195. Note that the Rover tracks visible in this picture are not as dark as the ones photographed closer to the LM at the ALSEP site. Silver Spur is at the right.]
166:43:10 Scott: I'll drive slow in here. There's our trusty drill.

166:43:15 Irwin: I thought you left it in the erect position.

166:43:18 Scott: No. No. (Long Pause)

166:43:31 Irwin: Friendly plains of Hadley.

166:43:35 Allen: Dave and Jim, this is Houston.

166:43:40 Scott: We've stopped, Houston! We're at ALSEP. (Pause)

166:43:47 Allen: Roger, troops. We're thinking that when you...

166:43:51 Scott: Okay. We're reading.

166:43:52 Allen: ...arrive back at the drill site: Jim, why don't you hop off and pick up the three important items there: the drill stem, the treadle, and the wrench. And, Dave, you can drive on back and park by the LM. Over.

166:44:09 Scott: Okay, give me your camera, Jim.

166:44:12 Irwin: Got it, Joe.

166:44:13 Scott: In work.

166:44:15 Irwin: Okay, I'll just skip the navs (that is, the readouts).

166:44:20 Scott: Yeah. (Pause) Here. (Pause) Okay.

166:44:30 Irwin: Let's see you have all the other stems in the bag.

166:44:35 Scott: Yeah.

166:44:36 Irwin: You have the wrench in there, too, don't you?

166:44:40 Scott: Yeah. I think so. If it's not there, I've got it in the bag.

166:44:44 Irwin: It's not here by the treadle. So all I'll do is pick up the treadle? (Pause)

166:44:54 Scott: I don't know why we need the treadle.

166:44:55 Irwin: I don't either...

166:44:56 Allen: Just take it on back. We might use it as a wrench.

166:45:05 Scott: (Responding to Joe) Yeah, I guess you could. Alright.

166:45:09 Allen: And that's Walter Mitty plan number 2. (Long Pause)

166:45:23 Irwin: Okay, I have the treadle (and) stems, and I'm heading back. (Long Pause)

166:45:45 Scott: Okay, I'm off the Rover (at the LM), Joe. (Pause)

166:45:53 Irwin: When I get up there, Joe, I'll give you the readings.

166:45:55 Allen: Okay, Jimmy. We're standing by. (Long Pause) Dave, are you arriving at the LM, now?

166:46:35 Scott: Yeah.

166:46:37 Irwin: Dave's been here for a couple minutes.

166:46:41 Allen: Okay, sorry. I guess I missed it. We're standing by for TV, Dave.

166:46:47 Irwin: And the heading is...

166:46:50 Scott: Roger, Joe.

166:46:52 Irwin: The heading is 001, (bearing) 032, (distance driven) 5.1; (range) 0.0; (amp-hours remaining) 88, 90; (battery temperatures) 108, 113; and motor temps are still low.

166:47:19 Allen: Copy, Jim. Remarkable Nav system.

166:47:26 Irwin: Sure is. (Pause)

[Although we don't know exactly where Dave initialized the Nav system, it was within 100 meters of the LM and, therefore, the fact that the range is now reading zero means that there was virtually no significant range error during this EVA.]

[Journal Contributor Jeroen Wackers notes that Dave and Jim have driven a total of about 27.9 km and have used about 47 amp-hours of battery power. The average use rate is 1.69 A-h/km and has been quite consistent across the three EVAs. However, at 167:35:58 after Dave drives out to the final Rover parking place, Joe asks him to tap the amp-hour meter to see if the readings change. In response to his tapping, the battery 2 reading changes from 88 amp-hours to 83. See a further discussion at 167:35:58.]

166:47:37 Scott: (To Houston) Okay, AGC says you should have it, Joe.

166:47:41 Allen: Okay. (Pause)

[TV on. Fendell is looking at the battery covers and, once again, the camera is stuck.]
Video Clip  2 min 47 sec ( 0.7 Mb RealVideo or 25 Mb MPG )

166:47:51 Irwin: Dave, are you going to use that (Hasselblad) camera?

166:47:54 Scott: Yes, sir.

166:47:55 Irwin: Okay, 'cause I want to...We never have taken any dust pictures of the Rover.

166:47:59 Scott: I'll do it right now.

166:48:01 Irwin: (Reading LMP-36) You need two cross-Sun and one down-Sun.

166:48:04 Scott: Okay.

166:48:07 Irwin: At f/11, 1/250th, 11 feet.

166:48:11 Scott: All the way, huh?

166:48:13 Irwin: Yeah. And, also, I've got to take a photograph of the solar wind (experiment).

166:48:17 Scott: Okay; I'll get it.

166:48:22 Allen: And we needs some help on our (TV) camera, Dave.

166:48:28 Scott: (Garbled)

166:48:31 Irwin: (To Houston) I guess we kind of follow the checklist here for a while, huh?

[Dave raises the TV and gives us a view of the side of the LM. Fendell pans right.]
166:48:40 Allen: Jim, that's affirm. But we want you to break down the core stem first, please. That is, separate it.

166:48:50 Irwin: (Laughing) Of course. The crew'll break down; the stem never will.

166:48:58 Scott: Okay; I got a pan of the Rover.

[Dave's Rover pictures start with AS15-82- 11196, which shows the front of the vehicle from the left side. Note that the TV camera is pointed down. We can see Jim on the far side.]

[To take 11197, Dave steps to his right and shows us the footrests, the footpan, and the bottom of the console.]

[ Next, Dave steps further to his right to get a picture of the seat area, 11198. Jim has rested the multiple section of the deep core on his seat. This photo gives us an excellent view of the switches, switch guards, and circuit breakers on the Rover console. Note that Dave has hung his seat belt on the low-gain antenna mast support. Jim mounted the BSLSS bag on the forward face of the geopallet at the start of EVA-3.]

[Next, Dave moves around to the right rear of the Rover to get 11199 of the fender. Note that there is dust on the Hasselblad lens.]

[Frame 11200 shows the view toward the front of the Rover. Note that there are some scratches on the top of the right rear fender. Note, also, that there are considerable buildups of dust on the chassis next to the wheel and on the inside of the hub. Forward of the seats, we can read the face of the console and can see the switches and switch guards quite clearly. Note that only some of the switches and breakers are guarded.]

[Next, Dave moves forward to get 11201 of Jim's footpan and the multiple core stem on Jim's seat. We can see more detail on the instrument panel, even though the lettering is not as easy to read. Note that Jim's gloves are very dirty. The ALSEP is visible in the background.]

[Next, Dave moves up to the right front wheel to get 11202 showing dust on the inside of the hub.]

[The final picture in the series, 11203 shows details on the front of the Rover, including the battery covers, the uncovered LCRU mirrors, the TCU, and tread on the left front tire. This is the last picture on this magazine taken during EVA-3.]

166:49:01 Scott: If you have that stem there. Jim? Okay, keep going the way your going. Let me have the stem. Don't bother with the treadle yet. Let's...(Pause as Dave looks in the SCB on the back of the Rover) Oh, shoot! The tool isn't in there. Must be in your seat. You didn't see the tool out there?

166:49:39 Irwin: No, all I saw was a (pause) UHT.

166:49:45 Scott: Must be in your seat, then.

166:49:51 Irwin: Is it?

166:49:53 Scott: Let's see. (Pause) Ah, shoot; I don't see it. (Pause)

166:50:06 Irwin: I'll whip out there (to the drill site) again. But the only thing I saw was the UHT lying on the surface out there. Did you have a UHT in that area?

166:50:12 Scott: Yeah!

166:50:13 Irwin: Yeah. That's all that was out there.

166:50:15 Scott: But, you know, I thought I put the tool in the bag with the stems.

166:50:23 Irwin: Maybe it just...

166:50:25 Scott: How could it get out and the stems not get out?

166:50:28 Irwin: How many stems did you have?

166:50:29 Scott: Two. (Pause)

Video Clip  2 min 44 sec ( 0.7 Mb RealVideo or 24 Mb MPG )

166:50:32 Irwin: I don't know, Dave.

[Fendell has stopped his counter-clockwise pan and is panning up along the high-gain antenna mast. As he gets up toward the transmitting element, the TV suddenly swings to it maximum vertical position. Once again, it is stuck.]
166:50:35 Scott: I don't know either. I guess we'll have to use the treadle. (Looking under the CDR seat) It's not in my side, either. Darn. Whew! Man, that's hot! I tell you what. The treadle.
[The treadle and drill stems have been out in the Sun at the drill site since the start of the EVA. However, Dave doesn't remember what it was that was hot.]

[Scott - "Something I touched was hot - through the suit, so it must have been pretty hot."]

MP3 Audio Clip ( 10 min 03 sec ) by David Shaffer

166:50:55 Irwin: Want to hold it, and I'll get on the end there with the treadle?

166:51:00 Scott: Yeah, okay. (Pause)

166:51:04 Irwin: How am I going to get the treadle over the cap, though? I'll have to come in from the other end.

166:51:08 Scott: No, the other end's got the same kind of cap, Jim.

166:51:10 Irwin: Don't guess it will hold with the cap on.

166:51:13 Scott: I'll take the cap off and go gently. I'll put the cap back on. Let's see. Which way should the treadle...That's right. I guess it...Easy does it. (Pause) No, we'll never...No, wait. Don't do that. Don't do that. We'll never get the treadle off. No, don't put the treadle on it. We'd never get it off. We've got nothing to get it back off with. Back off. Pull the treadle off. Best thing...Joe, will this stem fit in the LM someplace. I think it will.

166:51:53 Allen: We think so, Dave.

166:51:58 Scott: I think that's what we're going to do. We're going to take the stem with us, just like it is. I think if we try and fiddle with it, we're going to mess it up. (Pause)

166:52:14 Allen: We hear you, Dave. And our camera's turtled up again.

166:52:21 Scott: Okay. Ahhhh.! Now! Okay.

166:52:29 Irwin: Did you get it?!

166:52:30 Scott: I got one off.

[Scott, from the 1971 Technical Debrief - "We fiddled around with the treadle some. That was somewhat of a chore, also, but I think that is inherent in the design of the equipment. If the drill works as advertised, it really isn't bad. But, in summary, the ground being very hard tightened up the drills stems much harder than we'd seen before, and the vise not working on the back of the Rover complicated the separation of the stems. Finally, we had number 4 stem off about half way; and I finally, just in gripping the things, unscrewed it by hand."]

[Irwin, from the 1971 Technical Debrief - "I'd taken my protective covers off my gloves before I even went out on EVA-1; so, of course, they were off for this operation. I was kind of reluctant to grasp that drill (stem) very hard, afraid I might rip the gloves."]

[Scott, from the 1971 Technical Debrief - "That's a good point. I had to leave mine on the whole time because of the drill. The protective covers can restrain you hand movements even more than the gloves. (Consequently) I had sort of degraded mobility because of those protective covers, all the way. I finally took them off after we got through with the drill."]

[Jim tilts the TV camera down. We are looking north. Unfortunately, the TV promptly tilts down of its own accord and gives us yet another view of the surface near the Rover.]

166:52:36 Irwin: Okay, I'm going to work with the 16(-mm camera) here and see what I can do.

166:52:39 Scott: Good.

166:52:40 Allen: What did you do, Dave?

166:52:41 Scott: Boy, I tell you, my hands (garbled) done. Well, Joe, I just decided it was time to take that drill (stem) apart, and I took it apart.

166:52:59 Allen: That sounds easy enough.

166:53:00 Scott: So, now we have a three-stem section and three one-stem sections.

Video Clip  3 min 04 sec ( 0.8 Mb RealVideo or 27 Mb MPG )

166:53:07 Allen: That ain't half bad.

166:53:12 Irwin: (Laughs; Pause)

[Scott - "I just twisted them off."]

[Jones - "Put a hand on either side of a joint..."]

[Scott - "Just twisted it off. I remember doing that. Quit screwing with it."]

[Jones - "You must have a hell of a grip!"]

[Scott - "Comes a time when you've got to get it done."]

[Jim goes around the front of the Rover. In his shadow, we see that he is carrying a camera, probably the 16-mm. As he goes passes in front of the TV, we can see fans of particles that he kicks forward with his boots.]

166:53:19 Allen: Dave, we're standing by for a cap number on that...

166:53:23 Scott: And Golf on the single stem (garbled).

166:53:24 Allen: ...and, Jim, we need some help with the camera.

166:53:26 Scott: Here's the cap. (Garbled) is here. Hotel is the upper part of the three-stem section.

166:53:38 Allen: Copy. (Long Pause)

166:54:02 Scott: Those caps aren't on there very good, Jim, so gotta be awful careful of it (while taking the core stems into the LM cabin). Awful careful.

166:54:10 Irwin: Put it in the bag.

166:54:11 Scott: Can't.

166:54:13 Irwin: Oh, I see what you mean, yeah.

166:54:15 Scott: That one.

166:54:16 Irwin: I'll brush this (16-mm) mag (garbled, possibly "Alpha").

166:54:18 Allen: Dave, bag (SCB) 2 for that short section and, Jim, we need help on our TV camera, please.

166:54:29 Scott: Okay, I'll get it, Jim. You try and get that 16-millimeter working. (To Houston) You guys have almost lost control on this (TV) camera, haven't you? [Long Pause]

[Dave raises the TV partway, but it sinks again as soon as he lets go. He raises it again and this time it stays, albeit pointing almost directly at the Sun.]
166:54:50 Allen: Dave, point it down, please.

166:54:52 Scott: (Garbled) (Pause)

166:54:57 Allen: Thank you.

166:54:58 Scott: Joe, I'll point it down.

[By the time Dave gets to the camera, Fendell has lowered his aim to the horizon.]
166:55:02 Allen: It's okay, Dave; it's okay now.
[Dave lowers the camera about 30 degrees.]
166:55:03 Scott: How far down do you want it?

166:55:04 Allen: It's okay.

166:55:05 Scott: How about that? (Long Pause)

[Fendell follows Dave and, once the camera is pointed at the right-rear wheel and the LM beyond, he starts a counter-clockwise pan.]

[The following is taken from the Apollo 15 Mission Report: "During the second EVA, the TV camera could not be elevated as the unit approached the upper or lower limits of angular travel. The condition further deteriorated during the third EVA."]

["Elevation control is provided to the camera cradle through a friction clutch (Fig 14-47) which allows manual override of the ground-commanded camera positioning. The camera-cradle pivot point is approximately three inches below the center of gravity of the cradle with the camera mounted. As the camera moves away from the horizontal position, the unbalanced moment becomes progressively greater, and a higher torque load must be supplied by the clutch mechanism."]

["The elastomer clutch-facing material provided the required stable friction properties in the specification and qualification test temperature range (122 F, maximum). However, the maximum temperature on the television control unit during the third EVA has been calculated as approximately 180 F. Material specifications show that the compressive strength of the elastomer degrades rapidly at this temperature, and ground tests with flight unit 4 verify severely degraded performance with time at elevated temperature."]

["The clutch is being changed to a metal-to-metal spring ring design in place of the elastomer disk. The clutch torque for Apollo 15 was set at 16 inch-pounds for ease of manual adjustment. For greater stability on Apollo 16, the new clutch is being built with a torque of 30 inch-pounds, which is still comfortable for manual positioning and is within design limits of the system, including the gear train (35 inch-pounds)."]

[The re-designed clutch performed very well on both Apollo 16 and 17.]

166:55:26 Scott: Boy, I tell you what I need now is some Gatorade. Wow! I could drink 3 gallons of the stuff. I opened up my checklist here and look at all that work and that reminds me...(Pause)

166:55:42 Irwin: Work time.

[They are on cuff-checklist pages LMP-36 and CDR-38.]
166:55:46 Allen: Dave and Jim, this is Houston.

166:55:47 Irwin: Hey, Joe, I have mag Golf on here now. (Responding to Joe) Go.

166:55:51 Allen: Roger. We need a EMU status check from both of you, and we're 5 minutes from closeout. All we need is a few grab samples.

Video Clip  3 min 13 sec ( 0.8 Mb RealVideo or 29 Mb MPG )

166:56:01 Scott: Okay, I've got 50 percent (oxygen). The flags are clear and 3.9 (psi).

166:56:10 Irwin: I'm 3.85, flags are clear, and I'm reading 60 percent.

166:56:20 Allen: Thank you, Jim and Dave. Got it. (Pause)

[Jones - "You've got a lot of consumables left. Tell me why they couldn't have delayed launch by an orbit."]

[Scott - "You'd have to give up the margins (in LM and CSM consumables). You could, but you're giving up margin. At this stage of the game, having gotten all of this done, you stick with the nominal timeline and keep your margins. It would be great to stay two more hours and go up to the North Complex and all that, but then you're trading off the extra pad you built into the whole mission, for nothing. I don't mean 'nothing'. It would have been for something. But if you had some problem, then you would have traded it off."]

[Jones - "And, being as far north as you are, Al's orbit was moving quickly with respect to the landing site..."]

[Scott - "That doesn't affect it very much. You could delay. But that's your margin. Your margin is, you go off one orbit late, and your still in good shape. But, once you've gone through all the tradeoffs, on the whole mission, and you've built in your lift-off time, which accommodates all these margins, you don't give that up unless you have to."]

[Jones - "It was worth asking."]

[Scott - "You never know when you're going to get the surprise, and that's why you build all the margins in and that's why you make all the trade-offs. That's why it takes four hundred thousand people to do this. That's why the data priority stuff that was built into the LM was so good, 'cause you get all the trades in there. Somebody makes the decision on the priorities and the weighting and the balance and all that stuff. And then you stick with that, 'cause the rationale's already been built in. So, if you said, 'Here, delay two hours so you can do more geology,' you'd have to go back and get all those people together and go through the rationale that got you to this lift-off time. Wouldn't do it. That's why you have mission rules, and that's why you set it up this way, and that's why you have margins and, once it's all set, you stick with it. Now, if we had a problem - if the Rover got stuck and we had to walk back or whatever - we'd delay two hours. But that's why you've got that margin built in there, for contingencies."]

[Jones - "Makes me think of Amundsen and Scott again. Amundsen had margins; he understood what he was doing. Scott didn't have very big margins and what killed him was that the leather seals on the fuel cans at their supply depots on the way back shrank a little bit in the cold and the fuel - I don't know whether it was kerosene or what (it was paraffin) - evaporated. Not all of it, but enough of it so that they were always short on fuel for their cookstove. And then, when they got stuck in a blizzard, eleven miles short of their final depot, they just didn't have the reserves to make it. Whereas, Amundsen always had reserves. He never pressed."]

[Scott - "But you have to be careful on the other end of it, that you don't have too much margin. Then you can't get the job done. That's how you get the trades. That's why you use the experience."]

[Jones - "And you have a full program outlined here. It would have been nice to go to the North Complex but, still, you've done an awful lot at this site. You haven't done it all, but you have done the basic characterization of Hadley."]

[Scott - "If we had had enough time...I mean, we could have planned the mission to have two more hours but, because we were the first J mission, we probably had more margin than the next ones. Once you learn about your systems, then you can relax about the conservatism and the margins."]

[Dave is correct. NASA used the Apollo 15 experience to relax the margins for contingencies. Dave and Jim planned to spend 67 hours on the Moon, landing at 104:41 and launching back to lunar orbit at 171:37. The actual landing and launch differed from these times only slightly. The Apollo 16 crew planned to spend 73 hours on the Moon, landing at 98:47 and launching at 171:45. Because of concerns about the Command Module that arose prior to the descent, the actual landing was delayed nearly six hours until 104:29:36. However, unlike the Apollo 15 case, Houston decided that it would be safe to delay the launch until 175:32:00, thus cutting the loss of EVA time to two hours. On Apollo 17, Cernan and Schmitt planned to spend 75 hours on the Moon and, although they had a 40-minute delay in the launch from Earth and had to modify their outbound trajectory, they landed and launched on time.]

166:56:33 Allen: Okay, troops, we're asking for the undocumented samples to go into...

166:56:37 Irwin: Joe, it (meaning the 16-mm camera) sounds like it's running already at one frame per second.

166:56:38 Allen: ...the BSLSS bag, please.

[Fendell finds Jim holding the 16-mm camera at the CDR seat. Dave is also on the left side of the Rover, working behind the CDR seat. Fendell aims the TV down toward Dave's footpan.]
166:56:49 Irwin: We didn't catch that comment, Joe.

166:56:51 Allen: Rog, Jim, I'm sorry, I cut you out. Asking that the undocumented samples go into the BSLSS bag.

166:57:05 Irwin: Okay. (Pause)

166:57:12 Scott: We'll do that. Just grab a bunch, huh?

[No answer; Comm Break]

[Fendell is looking at the stowage areas under the two Rover seats. There appear to be two large samples in Jim's stowage area. As suggested by the dialog at 167:01:55 - which comes after JIm puts these two samples in an SCB - neither is Great Scott.]

[In cautious steps, Fendell raises his aim until he is looking over the console at the LM porch, with Mt. Hadley Delta in the background. After a few seconds, he starts a clockwise pan. He finds Jim, who is still at the CDR seat examining the 16-mm camera. Dave is out of view behind Jim but comes into view, perhaps carrying samples to the Rover.]

166:58:28 Scott: Hey, Joe, how about bag...Oh, well, okay. BSLSS bag. (Long Pause)

166:58:56 Irwin: Joe, when I start the (16-mm) camera it runs for about 3 seconds and then stops.

166:59:02 Allen: Okay, Jim. We copy that. Thank you. (Pause)

Video Clip  3 min 15 sec ( 0.8 Mb RealVideo or 29 Mb MPG )

166:59:10 Irwin: I can put on another mag, if you like. (Long Pause)

[Jim's tone of voice indicates that he thinks it would be a waste of time to try another 16-mm magazine.]

[Fendell pans clockwise.]

166:59:25 Allen: Negative, Jim. I think we should just go ahead with your other tasks. (Pause)

166:59:39 Irwin: Okay.

166:59:41 Allen: And, Jim, we've got another question...

166:59:42 Irwin: (Garbled) get the descent engine sample?

166:59:43 Allen: ...on the photography for you. We would like a picture of the Rover saddle which hung up on original deployment. Do you have one of those already?

166:59:56 Scott: No, but I'll go get one, Joe.

166:59:57 Allen: Okay, sounds good.

166:59:59 Scott: Right now.

167:00:02 Irwin: Dave, we have everything in this bag that you're going to put in it, right? In this bag here?

167:00:06 Scott: Yeah. But how about the rocks under the seat?

167:00:08 Irwin: Yeah. I'm going to put those in there. That's why I wanted to get the right bag.

167:00:10 Scott: Yeah, that's everything I've got.

167:00:13 Irwin: Well, we've got an SESC in here that has not been used (and), of course, the remaining caps.

[Fendell finds Jim at the LMP seat with an SCB in his hand.]
167:00:28 Irwin: Okay, I'm working on the bag 2, right now, Joe. (Pause) Taking the caps out of it that we have not used. We've got an SESC here that hasn't been used. And then I'm putting (pause) the rocks and samples that are under my seat in bag 2.
[After taking the spare core caps and the unused SESC out of SCB-2, Jim reaches under his seat about seven times to get samples.]
167:01:07 Scott: Okay, Joe; I got your picture of the saddle, a couple of them.

167:01:10 Allen: Okay. Fine.

[Dave's photos of the Rover deployment hardware are AS15-88- 11882 and 11883. The pictures also show the damage to the engine bell that occurred during the landing. Note the jettison bag and other trash that Dave and Jim have tossed under the spacecraft. Note that Dave seems to be using the LMP camera and that, at least temporarily, it seems to be working.]
167:01:15 Scott: What else would you like? (Long Pause)

167:01:55 Irwin: Did you document this large one, Dave?

167:01:58 Scott: Ah, sort of.

[Jim is almost certainly referring to Great Scott which, apparently, is still in his seatpan.]
167:02:01 Irwin: Okay, I'll try to get it in this bag, then. It'll be a heavy bag. (Pause) I think I'll wait and put that (meaning Great Scott) in the BSLSS bag.

167:02:19 Scott: Okay. (Long Pause)

[Jim continues to work at his seat.]

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