Apollo 15 Lunar Surface Journal Banner

Extracting the Core and Losing the North Complex

Corrected Transcript and Commentary Copyright © 1996 by Eric M. Jones.
All rights reserved.
Scan credits in the Image Library
Last revised 18 January 2014.

MP3 Audio Clip ( 15 min 47 sec ) by David Shaffer

164:03:55 Allen: Dave, when you get out to the (ALSEP) site, if you'll park down-Sun, we'll give you (the) Nav alignment when you get ready to go. (Pause)

164:04:13 Scott: And we're rolling.

164:04:15 Allen: Roger. (Pause)

164:04:24 Scott: Everything's working today.

[This is a reference to the fact that the front steering did not work during EVA-1.]
164:04:26 Allen: Beautiful, Dave. And did you copy "park down-Sun, give us the readings, and we'll align the Nav system when you press on towards Station 9."

164:04:38 Scott: Okay. I understand, Joe. (Long Pause)

164:05:02 Allen: Dave, while you're driving, there, we're going to want you to take apart our core stems. We'll have Jim pack them away in bag 2, which is under his seat, and then we'll do the Grand Prix photographs before we start driving off toward Station 9.

164:05:22 Scott: Okay. Understand. (Long Pause) Oop. (Pause) Wait a minute, Jimmy, let me...I'm going to back up a minute, Jim. Okay?

164:05:49 Irwin: Okay. (Pause)

164:05:55 Scott: Never saw that before, huh?

164:05:57 Irwin: Kind of bogged down, isn't it?

164:05:59 Scott: Sure is. I never saw it do that. (Pause) Oh, I know why. Nope. (Pause)

164:06:11 Irwin: Okay. You're moving forward.

164:06:13 Scott: Okay. Oop.

164:06:16 Irwin: Kind of dug in there!

164:06:17 Scott: Yeah, it sure did, didn't it? Never seen that happen. Trusty old Rover.

[The Rover is light enough that, if it did get stuck, Dave and Jim could simply lift it out of trouble.]
164:06:24 Scott: Get us going down-Sun here, so I can get those Nav readings. (Pause) Still got to get in position, so I can do my tricks with the drill. (Long Pause) Okay, Joe. I'm push in the Nav circuit breaker. And the Sun-shadow device is reading about one-half to the left, pitch is reading about 2 down, and roll...Jim, let go back there a minute...Roll is reading 2 left.

164:07:35 Allen: Copy, Dave. (Pause)

164:07:45 Scott: Okay. Now to the drill. (Pause) We last left our friend...

164:07:57 Irwin: Now it's "our" friend, huh?

164:07:59 Scott: Yes, it is. And if you could...(Let me) see, if I can...

164:08:04 Irwin: Okay. Check me out on it.

164:08:06 Scott: Well...

164:08:08 Irwin: What should I do there? (Pause)

164:08:14 Scott: Ahh! The object is to pull it out of the ground. But I'm not sure we can do that without driving the drill.

164:08:21 Irwin: I don't think so either. Why not just drive it a little bit to break it loose.

164:08:23 Scott: It's broke loost (sic).

164:08:25 Irwin: Huh.

164:08:26 Allen: Dave and Jim, this is Houston...

164:08:27 Scott: (Lost under Joe) pulled it up yesterday.

164:08:28 Irwin: Well, one of us get on one side...

164:08:29 Allen: ...we're standing by for Rover powerdown and TV remote.

164:08:35 Scott: Okay, Joe. I didn't know you wanted the TV out here, too. (Long Pause) Okay. TV. (Brief Static) Okay, down-Sun position is a bad one for the old Earth, but I'll do it on the AGC.

[Dave has to stand in front of the Rover to use the sighting scope and, since the Rover is headed west, he is looking back into the Sun. Before his next transmission, he probably glances down at the meter.]
164:09:13 Scott: Oh; you ought to have it, Joe.

164:09:15 Allen: Okay. Thank you, Dave. Appreciate that. And by watching, maybe we can give you a few words of advice on this drill.

164:09:26 Irwin: Dave, I'm thinking, maybe if you get on one side, I'll get on the other. And maybe the two of us, by hooking an arm under that, can lift it out.

164:09:33 Scott: Okay. Let's try it.

[Scott, from the 1971 Technical Debrief - "Each of us had a handle of the drill under the crook out our elbow, and we got it up to the point where we could put our shoulders under it."]
164:09:36 Irwin: Okay. You say when. 1, 2...

164:09:37 Scott: When.

164:09:38 Irwin: ...3. 1, 2, 3. (Grunting on "3") A little bit.

Video Clip  3 min 13 sec ( 0.8 Mb RealVideo or 28 Mb MPG )

[TV on. The camera is pointing down and does not move.]
164:09:43 Irwin: Let me get down a little bit. I'd like to get down and get a...

164:09:49 Scott: But it's got a long way to go.

164:09:51 Irwin: Yeah. I know it. But if we break it loose...1, 2, 3. Okay. 1, 2, 3.

164:09:58 Scott: Okay. That's enough. Hold it. I suspected as much. Joe, do you think...Looks to me like the only answer is going to be to back it off with the drill.

164:10:15 Allen: Roger. Let's do that.

164:10:20 Scott: Okay. (Pause) Except that treadle is going to go.

164:10:29 Irwin: Yeah, watch the treadle.

164:10:30 Scott: I know it.

164:10:32 Irwin: Don't want me to push it (meaning the treadle)? Can I push it down and stand on it? (Pause)

164:10:40 Scott: No, no, no, no. The other problem is you got to break...I guess we could pull the whole...

164:10:46 Irwin: Pull the whole thing out, huh?

164:10:48 Scott: ...thing out and put it up on the vise and take it apart.

164:10:51 Irwin: Yeah.

164:10:52 Allen: Sounds good.

164:10:54 Scott: That's about the only way we're going to do it. Now we got to get it (perhaps the treadle) back down. (Pause) That'll do. Let me turn it around and stand...

164:11:16 Irwin: Stand clear of the treadle.

164:11:18 Scott: Can't stand clear of it, because...Should have left the treadle down there. (Long Pause)

164:11:43 Allen: Dave, this is Houston. Is the treadle on the ground now?

164:11:50 Scott: Hey, Joe; stand by, will you?

164:11:52 Allen: Okay. We're standing by.

164:11:53 Scott: (Garbled) this thing. And if we get hung up, we'll let you know, and...We'll give you a progress. If you keep asking questions, we got to stop what we're doing and talk to you. Let us work the problem.

164:12:02 Allen: Roger. We understand. No problem.

[Fendell pans right but, apparently, is unable to raise his aim.]
164:12:05 Scott: I know you're anxious, but I guess we've had as many hacks at this drill (as anybody)...We'll ask you if we get hung up. (Pause) There, now. Little...(Laughing) Sucked me right back down. That was a good idea, but that didn't work either. (Laughing) What happens, Joe, is that, when I turn the drill on, the drill drills, like all drills should.

Video Clip  2 min 38 sec ( 0.7 Mb RealVideo or 23 Mb MPG )

164:12:51 Irwin: There you go, Dave. Put a little angle on it. I was just going to suggest that.

164:12:58 Scott: Whew! Oh, brother.

164:12:59 Irwin: I think you broke it loose.

164:13:00 Scott: Let's see, I've got a flag. I mean a tone. No flag. Ninety percent on the oxygen. (Pause)

164:13:17 Irwin: Everything else okay?

164:13:19 Allen: Looks good to us, Dave. You might check your cuff gauge.

164:13:22 Scott: See if we can get it to...(Responding to Joe) Yeah, I did; it's okay.

164:13:30 Irwin: Let me get an elbow under it.

164:13:31 Scott: I've got another tone. I don't think it's worth doing, Jim. We're not going to get it out.

164:13:41 Irwin: I could put a lot of pressure on it this way.

164:13:43 Scott: Yeah. Let me try, too.

[Fendell reaches the clockwise pan limit and reverses direction. He is still unable to raise the camera.]
164:13:44 Irwin: Okay. 1, 2, 3. [Grunting] Here it comes. 1, 2, 3. How many more (sections) do we have?

164:13:57 Scott: Just one more (try). 1, 2, 3. Okay. Now we're making a little progress. Tell you what we're going to have to do is, I guess, break the drill, take the drill off, and then break the stems off one by one here and put the drill back on and pull it up again. Are you guys that interested in this thing? In Houston? (No answer)

164:14:23 Irwin: I'll get the wrench.

164:14:26 Scott: Yeah, get the wrench.

[Fendell catches Jim shadow as he comes to the Rover to get the wrench. Note that Houston has decided not to interrupt Dave and Jim by asking them to help with the TV.]
164:14:32 Allen: Dave, how many inches has it moved upwards?

164:14:40 Scott: Well, we've got it up about 3 feet. And I think we can do it piecemeal, if you're really that interested. (Chuckles)

164:14:51 Allen: Roger. We copy.

[Jones - "This isn't the only time you ask them if the core is worth all this effort."]

[Scott - "Right. 'Do you really want to do this? Let us get out of here.' And I remember thinking 'Look at what we've already put into this thing! How long are we going to go before we call it off?' At some point you got to stop screwing with it because you know it's compromising everything else. That's why, when we had dinner with Grant (Heiken in 1992), I asked him, 'Was it worth it?' This is just eating into oxygen, energy, time, frustration. 'Do you really want to do this, guys?'"]

[Grant Heiken is one of the editors of the invaluable Lunar Sourcebook and, at the time of the mission, was a NASA geologist in Houston. During one of Dave's visits to Santa Fe, he and I had dinner with Grant and with David Vaniman, one of the other editors of the Sourcebook. Immediately after the mission, Heiken performed a quick-look x-ray analysis of the core which revealed multiple soil layers that promised a wealth of information on the processes that create the regolith. The Apollo 15 deep core, along with it's Apollo 16 and 17 counterparts, is one of the most valuable samples returned from the Moon.]

164:14:52 Irwin: Here's the wrench. Bringing it.

164:14:54 Scott: I'll tell you, you sure invested an awful lot in this thing. (Pause) I got a little bit. (Pause)

Video Clip  1 min 49 sec ( 0.5 Mb RealVideo or 16 Mb MPG )

164:15:19 Irwin: You don't think there is any chance of us pulling it all the way out, Dave?

164:15:22 Scott: Well, let's try again.

164:15:23 Irwin: Yeah. If we could just get our shoulder under that.

164:15:26 Scott: Okay.

[Scott - "The people in the back row must be screaming at Ed Fendell. 'Get it over there! Point it to them! Where are they? What are you doing!?'"]
164:15:28 Irwin: Let me get down here, and get a shoulder under it.

164:15:32 Scott: Okay, me too. Hold it? Ready? Oop. Wait a minute. 1, 2, 3. Oop, slipped off. Wait, maybe you can get an arm under it, now. There you go. Do this.

164:15:46 Irwin: Oh, this is like isometrics.

164:15:48 Scott: Yeah. Okay.

164:15:49 Irwin: 1, 2, 3.

[Fendell reaches the counter-clockwise pan limit, reverses direction and increases the zoom.]

[Scott, from the 1971 Technical Debrief - "Then, with each of us with one handle of the drill on top of our shoulders, we pushed as hard as we could - it must have been at least 400 pounds (of force) - and finally got it to move and got it out."]

164:15:53 Scott: Okay. One more.

164:15:54 Irwin: That's too high for me. I think I can grab it here. Okay. You tell me when.

[Jim may have taken hold of the drill string.]
164:15:59 Scott: Okay, 1, 2, 3. 1, 2, 3. Let me help you down there.

164:16:05 Irwin: Oh, we can...

164:16:05 Scott: Easy, easy, easy. Don't auger it; just hold it now. Don't bend it. I'll never get it apart. 1, 2, 3. Okay, 1, 2, 3.

164:16:20 Irwin: It's kind of stuck there.

164:16:21 Scott: Let's take a break.

164:16:22 Irwin: Yeah. (Both breathing heavily) (Pause) Why don't you go to Max cooling?

164:16:33 Scott: Yeah. Yeah, I just thought of that. (Pause)

164:16:38 Irwin: Joe, you having trouble with your TV?

164:16:42 Allen: Oh, you better believe.

164:16:45 Scott: Yeah, they're hung down.

164:16:47 Allen: And, Jim, why don't you take a breather and tip it up for us, please. Thank you.

164:16:55 Irwin: Dave's tipping it for you. (Pause)

[Dave raises the TV camera and goes back to work. We now have a view of the left flank of Mt. Hadley.]
Video Clip  2 min 44 sec ( 0.7 Mb RealVideo or 24 Mb MPG )

164:17:02 Scott: Nothing like a little PT (Physical Training) to start the day out. Try it again, here. Okay.

[Scott, from a 1996 letter - "'PT' is an old Army term."]
164:17:08 Irwin: I'm ready.

164:17:09 Scott: 1, 2, 3. Okay, it's coming. It's coming. Okay. Let me get underneath it here. Okay, 1, 2, 3. (Chuckling) Okay.

164:17:22 Irwin: One more.

QuickTime Clip (1 min 02 sec) by Peter Dayton

164:17:23 Scott: 1, 2, 3, okay. I've got it. Okay. Let me have it now.

164:17:26 Irwin: Okay. You've got it. Good.

[By the time Fendell gets the TV aimed at the drill site, Jim has headed for the Rover. Dave is holding the drill stem at about shoulder height. The treadle is at about eye level and, off-camera, the drill chuck is another meter higher.]

[They started pulling the drill stem out at 164:09:36.]

[Scott - "Now that I hear it, I can hardly believe it: that we put that much effort into it. I knew at the time it was (a lot of effort). But, now, getting to hear all the huffing and the puffing..."]

[Jones - "I'm looking at the heart rates here (see the accompanying charts) and I don't believe this for a second! They've got you at 100 beats per minute and Jim at 125, and I don't believe for a second."]

[Scott - "I don't believe it, either! I mean, we were working max. This is max output. I mean, you can just tell from the huffing and the puffing and the breathing. This is absolutely max output."]

[Jones - "150, 160, somewhere in there."]

[Scott - "This has to be our max heart rate. Well, I know it isn't, cause I know on the treadmill they take you off at 180. So I know I've been to 180."]

[Jones - "That's fiction, there."]

[Scott - "That is fiction. And it makes you wonder, is any of this data good?"]

[Dave thought about the heart rates for a moment.]

[Scott - "You know, it may be right. Because we're not in a cycling mode, like you would be on a treadmill. You're pushing and then backing off. You're pushing and then backing off. So it's not like running the heart up at a high rate over a long period of time."]

[Jones - "But I hear you breathing hard."]

[Scott - "I know. You're breathing hard, but that doesn't mean that you've got a high heart rate. You may have some peaks, but you're breathing hard 'cause you're straining. We're doing isometrics and we're not exercising the heart very much. We're not pumping a lot of blood through the system, because we're not doing dynamic kind of exercises. Pretty static exercise, really. Just pushing; but it's hard. Pushing with everything you've got. I'm just amazed they kept letting us go."]

[Jones - "If you believe it, I will, too."]

[Scott - "There are different kinds of heart rates, and high rates are over a longer period of time."]

[We then returned to the theme of Jim's heart arhythmias and the question of just when the flight surgeons became concerned about Jim.]

[Scott - "They may have had concern about Jim, 'cause they had him put on his new sensors. And then we're out here doing this stuff and the surgeon must have been going bananas, too."]

[Jones - "But it was Houston who suggested that Jim pull it out."]

[Scott - "Yeah. I wonder why they did that? Probably knew I was getting real frustrated and might just throw the sucker away. They probably didn't want the thing broken off at the bit."]

[Although Dave does not mention the fact to Houston or discuss it during the Technical Debrief, he has injured his right shoulder as a result of "muscular/ligament strain". During the rest of the mission, Dave will take a total of 14 aspirins to help with the pain. According to the Mission Report, after the flight his shoulder "responded rapidly to therapy."]

[Scott, from a 1996 letter - "They used ultrasonic therapy on it, as I recall - which was new stuff then."]

[Jones - "You put an amazing amount of physical effort into the core extraction."]

[Scott - "Yeah. It was just a brute force exercise."]

[Jones - "And you strained your shoulder doing this."]

[Scott - "Somewhere. I didn't know it at the time. We were too involved in this thing. 'Let's turn this thing off and get on with it!' You can hear me. Picture it. The rille's sitting out there; the North Complex is sitting out there. We already know we have a big time problem. And how much time did we put into the drill already? And it's tough for us to make the trade-off in terms of science value..."]

[Jones - "Are you constrained in the suit? Is the bladder away from your body?"]

[Scott - "Pretty much"]

[Jones - "So you've got motion in there? Or is your shoulder reasonably constrained?"]

[Scott - "Oh. It's close to the suit. There is some clearance, or you couldn't get the suit on. It's not the suit's fault. The suits do well, especially taking this beating. I mean, 'What are these guys doing to these suits?'; the suits were not designed to do this with the drill. It shows how tough and durable the things were. I'm really surprised that somebody in the back row in Houston didn't get real squeamish about all of this. I'm surprised some boss didn't just say, 'Hey, just knock that off.'"]

[Jones - "Which they might have done had the TV camera been working."]

[Scott - "Yeah. Could have, 'cause they could hear us grunting and groaning - two guys on the Moon in pressure suits doing this kind of stuff. In retrospect, not smart, from a safety point of view. Not smart. But, nevertheless, there we are."]

["We don't pay any attention to this sort of stuff - safety hazards and all that - when we're doing this. You've already erased all of that from your mind and, only if a tone comes on do you do something. As long as there are no tones, you work as you would work on the Earth and you never really think about what I've been talking about. Houston, that's their job. To sort of pace us and guide us and all that sort of stuff, 'cause, once we're out in the suits, boy, it's very comfortable."]

["People have said, 'Boy, didn't you worry about having a leak?' Nope. Never worried one bit. Boy, you're out there and the stuff works and press on. If something's going to be wrong with it, the ground'll tell you or you'll get a horn. And then you stop and take care of whatever you have to take care. And, in the mean time, you just go do whatever you got to do."]

[Through long-term familiarity, Dave and Jim were aware of the suit's limitations and, when caution was advisable, they were cautious. The work they did at the Station 6a boulder is a case in point. The only example that comes to mind of someone taking undue risk during an Apollo EVA is that of Charlie Duke falling backwards onto his PLSS at the end of the 3rd Apollo 16 EVA. He was trying to see if he could jump high enough to execute a full rotation around the long axis of his body before coming back down.]

164:17:30 Scott: Okay. Now if you'll close the gate.

164:17:32 Irwin: Okay. (Pause) Gate's closed.

164:17:39 Scott: Okay.

164:17:40 Irwin: Want me to put up the vise here?

164:17:42 Scott: No. Just leave it alone.

164:17:43 Irwin: Okay.

164:17:44 Scott: It's up.

164:17:44 Irwin: Yeah, you don't...

[Dave pulls up on the drill stem with his right hand but is unable to move it.]
164:17:45 Scott: Come and help me pull again, Jim. I thought I had it.

164:17:49 Irwin: I thought you did, too.

[Jim grabs the drill stem at about waist height with his left hand and bends his legs.]
164:17:52 Scott: It's a two-man job. Okay. 1, 2, 3. Oop. There we go!

164:17:57 Irwin: We almost flew with it.

[When they pulled, the drill stem broke loose and yanked Dave up onto his toes and Jim off the ground by an inch or two.]
164:17:58 Scott: I've got it.

164:17:59 Irwin: Okay. (Pause)

164:18:05 Scott: Man, oh man!

[Dave rotates the tip up to a horizontal position and takes the core to the Rover.]

[Scott, from the 1971 Technical Debrief - "Because of the significance of drilling in the bedrock, (spending time extracting the core) was probably the way to go. We could only accept the ground's evaluation but, at the time, it seemed like we were investing an awful lot of energy and time in recovering one small experiment, however important it may have been. But, at that stage, I guess we had so much invested in it that we couldn't afford to leave it. It sure was expensive."]

164:18:08 Irwin: Okay, let me see. I'll get the caps for that.

164:18:12 Scott: It's in bag 2, I think.

164:18:14 Irwin: Yeah.

[Jim goes to get SCB-2, which is under his seat. Dave lays the core across of the top of the geopallet at the back of the Rover.]
164:18:15 Scott: Put all the stuff back here, if you can. I can just work the problem right here.

164:18:17 Irwin: Okay.

164:18:19 Allen: Jim, all the gear's in bag 2. And as you pull it apart, we want you to put the filled stems back into bag 2, please.

164:18:30 Irwin: Yep. We understand. (Pause)

[Dave is standing at the right side of the geopallet, behind the LMP seat, and tries to move the treadle up the drill string toward the chuck.]
MP3 Audio Clip ( 12 min 09 sec ) by David Shaffer

164:18:44 Scott: Okay. I'm going to need you to help me get this treadle up to the front, Jim.

164:18:48 Irwin: Okay.

[Jim is taking pieces of equipment out of SCB-2 at his seat.]
164:18:51 Scott: Bring the whole bag back here, so I can work it.

164:18:54 Irwin: Oh, okay.

164:18:55 Scott: Just bring the bag back here, and I'll just work it like I usually do. You can be doing something useful, instead of just standing.

164:19:02 Allen: Jim, we need pictures of your beautiful trench there and the collapsed wall. And we'd like, I guess, a photo pan around this remarkable core hole.

[Jim takes the bag to the back of the Rover and takes up a position behind Dave's right shoulder.]
164:19:14 Scott: (To Jim) Here. Come on; bring it on over here, Jim.
[Dave motions toward the other side the geopallet, behind the CDR seat.]
164:19:16 Scott: Jim, bring it on over here.

164:19:17 Irwin: Yeah.

[Jim goes off-camera to our right.]
164:19:18 Scott: Joe, just stand by until we get this settled down, and then we'll come at you for what is the next task.

164:19:24 Allen: Okay.

164:19:28 Scott: (To Joe) You're going to have to just hold off on jumping ahead of us, because we always have to come back and ask you what you said anyway. (To Jim) Okay...

164:19:36 Allen: Read you loud and clear.

164:19:37 Scott: ...Jim, if I could get you to help me take the treadle off.

164:19:40 Irwin: Okay.

[This public show of irritation is remarkable for Dave and indicates the level of frustration that he is feeling.]

[Throughout the extraction, Joe made only a few short transmissions, undoubtedly to avoid disturbing Dave and Jim's concentration. His quick response to Dave suggestion at 164:18:55 that Jim find 'something useful" to do indicates that he had a list of proposed tasks waiting. However, when he realized Dave's level of frustration and that Dave still needed Jim's help, he backed off with an immediate 'Read you lound and clear'.]

[After putting SCB-2 on the back of the Rover to Dave's left, Jim comes around to Dave's left.]

Video Clip  2 min 47 sec ( 0.7 Mb RealVideo or 25 Mb MPG )

164:19:42 Scott: So, if you'll get on the other side, we can jiggle it and move it up towards the drill.

QuickTime Clip (1 min 38 sec) by Peter Dayton

164:19:45 Irwin: Okay. (Pause)

[Jim comes around the drill and stands next to his seatback.]
164:19:53 Irwin: Okay.
[Dave and Jim both take hold of the treadle and rotate it back and forth around the drill-stem axis, trying to work it up toward the chuck.]
164:19:55 Scott: You can't put any up or down on it. It's got to be sideways. (Not making any progress) Nah, that's...

164:20:02 Irwin: Let me try it. (Pause) It's locked on there, isn't it?

164:20:07 Scott: No, it shouldn't be. (Pause) (Frustrated) Boy.

164:20:11 Irwin: Uh...

164:20:13 Scott: Boy. (Pause) I tell you, we'll do it section by...If you could hold it up there, Jim. Hold it on the Hand Tool Carrier.

164:20:29 Irwin: Yeah. Let me get on the other end.

164:20:30 Scott: Let me hold it. You just twist the drill off.

164:20:32 Irwin: Okay. (Pause)

[Dave moves to his right and holds the drill-string with both hands. Jim steps around to grab the drill handles in both hands.]
164:20:37 Scott: Okay, now. Just rotate the drill left. Atta boy. Just rotate it left. Easy does it. Easy does it. (Pause) Keep it straight if you can. There you go. One more. Just a little...Keep it straight. Ought to break in a little bit, here. (Pause) Hold it up. There. Now. (Pause) Ease it off. Easy does it. (Pause)
[The drill comes loose and Jim takes it to his footpan.]
164:21:11 Scott: I got to take my camera off. Okay. Just hold (garbled) there
[Dave takes his camera off to get it out of the way and takes it off-camera, around to his seat.]
164:21:18 Irwin: You want me to stand by here, Dave?

164:21:21 Scott: Yeah. Just hold on while I...(Long Pause)

[Dave returns to the back of the Rover.]
164:21:37 Scott: (Get the) handy dandy caps out of here. Well, listen, I can get it from there, I think, Jim. Go ahead (garbled)

164:21:44 Irwin: Okay; well I'm going to take these pictures that Joe requested. And if you need any help, just holler, and I'll be right back.

164:21:49 Scott: Okay.

164:21:50 Irwin: Because I'm right here. (Pause) Here's my trench, yeah.

QuickTime Clip (1 min 20 sec) by Peter Dayton

164:21:57 Scott: Okay. (Long Pause)

[Jim goes to the trench and Fendell follows. Jim starts the trench "after" photography with a down-Sun stereopair, AS15-88-11872 and 11873. He then moved to the north end of the trench to take a cross-Sun stereopair, 11874 and 11875.]
Video Clip  2 min 50 sec ( 0.7 Mb RealVideo or 25 Mb MPG )

164:22:22 Scott: Okay, Joe. On the drill top end goes (core cap) Alfa.

164:22:29 Allen: Copy Alfa.

164:22:34 Scott: On the bit (end) goes Beta.

164:22:37 Allen: Roger. (Long Pause)

[Jim lopes around the west side of the trench and positions himself directly in front of the TV camera as he takes a cross-Sun stereopair from south of the trench, AS15-88- 11876 and 11877. Note the Rover tracks on the far side of the trench. The herring-bone pattern created by the Rover wheels indicates that the Rover was moving from left to right, undoubtedly when Dave drove back to the LM for EVA-2 closeout. See AS15-92-12443, which Jim took at about 148:31:11 before he ran back to the LM for EVA-2 closeout. Jim left before Dave started driving and there were no Rover tracks near the trench when Jim took 12443.]

[Jim moves off-camera to the right and Fendell follows.]

164:23:00 Irwin: Okay. I have the photos of the trench. Did you say you wanted a pan from this location, Joe?

164:23:07 Allen: Roger.

164:23:13 Irwin: Okay.

[Comm Break]

[Now, Jim moves off-camera to the right and, once again, Fendell follows. Jim takes up a position north of the trench and, as is usual, starts the pan with a down-Sun. He takes three pictures and then, after he makes another slight turn, slightly bends his right knee, bends his left knee even more and gets up on the toes of his left foot in order to raise his aim. He holds that position for several seconds before getting down and turning around to get some sunlight on the top of his camera, which has failed again. The four frames in this partial pan (assembly by Dave Byrne) are AS15-88- 11878 to 11881.]

164:24:16 Scott: Golly, there's some stuff in there! (Pause)
[Dave has broken off the top drill stem and, looking at the bottom end of the section before he caps it, sees that there is soil in it.]
164:24:23 Irwin: How you coming on that.

164:24:24 Scott: Coming. Okay, Joe. On the (bottom of the) top section goes (cap) Charlie.

164:24:34 Allen: Roger.

[Jim turns to the northwest for another try at picture taking.]
164:24:37 Scott: And I...Let's see. The other bag ... which are going to have to go in here.

164:24:43 Irwin: Going to grab your camera, Dave.

164:24:44 Scott: Yeah.

164:24:45 Irwin: Mag's jammed. (Garbled under Dave)

[Jim heads for the Rover, taking the magazine out as he goes.]
164:24:47 Scott: Is it?

164:24:49 Irwin: That's the one that jammed yesterday, isn't it? Yeah.

164:24:51 Scott: No, It worked...Is that right?

164:24:53 Irwin: It was working there for a while, and then it jammed again.

[Jim puts the magazine back in the camera and then takes the camera off.]
164:24:55 Scott: Okay. Hey, Joe, what bag do you want these core stems to go in.

164:25:00 Allen: Bag number 2, Dave.

[Jim puts the LMP camera on his seat and goes around the back of the Rover to get Dave's camera off the CDR seat.]
Video Clip  3 min 10 sec ( 0.8 Mb RealVideo or 28 Mb MPG )

164:25:04 Scott: Bag number 2 doesn't have any pockets.

164:25:07 Allen: No problem.

164:25:15 Scott: (Unsure this is wise) Okay. (Pause) There will be a problem when we start working in the bag.

164:25:23 Allen: Negative, Dave. That's an extra bag now, and we'll keep that in mind.

164:25:30 Scott: Okay. (Pause)

[Fendell has panned right to watch Dave. Dave pulls on the drill string to get the treadle away from the Rover and starts to work it off the stem.]
164:25:29 Scott: Now let's see. Get the treadle off. (Pause) (Try) this (Pause)
[Dave hasn't had any success in getting the treadle off and gets the wrench to try to secure the drill string. Before using the wrench, he puts a core cap on the open end of the drill string. Fendell pans left.]
164:25:44 Scott: (To Houston) Okay. Delta is the cap on top of the next section. (Long Pause)
[Fendell pans left and find Jim taking a pan with Dave's camera.]
164:26:12 Scott: Let's see. (Long Pause) Jim, did you get the vise on right?

164:26:31 Irwin: Sure did.

164:26:32 Scott: Oh, it's backwards.

164:26:33 Irwin: Can only go on one way, Dave.

164:26:35 Scott: Really!? (Pause)

164:26:46 Scott: It's not working. There it goes. (Grunting) Ohhh!

164:26:56 Irwin: Okay. The pan's complete here, Joe.

164:26:59 Allen: Super.

[Jim's pan (assembled by Dave Byrne) consists of frames AS15-82- 11047 to 11064. Frank O'Brien has assembled the up-Sun portion and Mike Constantine has assembled the portion showing Dave working at the back of the Rover.]

[In frame 11053, the lineations on Mt. Hadley are much fainter than they were during the second EVA but are still evident.]

[Frames 11055, 11056 and 11057 are good up-Sun views of the Swann Range and the LM with little glare.]

[Frames 11060 and 11061 show Dave at the back of the Rover examining the vise. He has the core with him, lying horizontally along the back of the Rover with the treadle hanging off the near end. David Harland has assembled the portion of the pan showing Dave's activities.]

[Frame 11062 shows the TV camera pointed at Jim. Note the treadle hanging down just inside of the right rear fender.]

[Frame 11063 shows the front of the Rover.]

[The last frame of the pan, 11064 shows the Central Station.]

[The f-stop settings used relative to the direction of the Sun are shown on decals mounted on the tops of the film magazines. 'HBW' is High-Speed Black-and-White and 'HCEX' is High-Speed Color Exterior.]

[Dave and I discussed frame AS15-82- 11056, an up-Sun picture of the LM.]

[Jones - "This picture is relevant to our previous discussion of the flag picture of Jim (AS15-88-11866). I think what makes the ground look like it's rising in 11866 is that there's a little bit of a mound between the flag and the LM. And, additionally, the LM is tilted toward the south. So the combination makes the ground look like it's rising."]

[Scott - "That's interesting. I'd never really thought about it before."]

[Jones - "I don't remember you talking in the cabin about the pitch of the LM. It must not have bothered you very much."]

[Scott - "Nope. It was hardly noticeable. It may be noticeable in that picture because of the horizon. It's an optical problem. If you cover up the horizon, now what have you got? It doesn't look like it's tilted as much."]

[Jones - "I think the tilt was nine degrees."]

[Jim heads off-camera to the right, heading for the CDR seat to get a new film magazine.]

164:27: Irwin: And I think I'll take advantage of the time and put a black and white (magazine) on my camera.

164:27:11 Allen: Sounds good.

164:27:12 Scott: You have a new mag on there today, Jim. It couldn't have been the one that failed yesterday.

164:27:17 Irwin: No, I had the color mag on there, TT. That's the one that was on there yesterday.

164:27:20 Scott: No it wasn't, either. TT is brand new.

164:27:23 Allen: That's right, Dave. Tango Tango is a brand new mag. (Long Pause)

[The magazine that was on Jim's camera when the camera failed at Station 4 was PP (Papa-Papa) or AS15-90.]

[During the preceding discussion, Fendell panned right until he found Dave at the back of the Rover. Dave has the wrench in his left hand and is turning the core stem down to the rear, trying to disengage the second section. He pulls the drill string out a little farther to his right and tries the wrench again. There is a vise mounted on the back of the Rover which, in principle, should bite into the third section and hold it while Dave removes the second section. See page 7 from the LRV Stowage Document.]

164:27:38 Irwin: Okay. I'll throw a little malfunction procedure on it (meaning the Hasselblad) then.

164:27:45 Allen: Okay. That a boy.

[Jim comes around the back of the Rover to his seat. Dave is still turning the drill string with the wrench, trying to figure out why the vise won't hold the section seated in it.]
164:27:46 Scott: I hate to tell you, Jim, but that...Oh boy! This vise is on...I swear it's on backwards. (Pause)

Video Clip  3 min 27 sec ( 0.9 Mb RealVideo or 30 Mb MPG )

164:28:03 Irwin: The holes on the Hand Tool Carrier only line up one way. (Pause)

164:28:09 Scott: (Discouraged) Doesn't work then.

[Fendell zooms in on Jim's camera as he performs the malfunction procedures. In the background, Dave slides the drill string to his left.]
164:28:11 Scott: (To Houston) How many hours you want to spend on this drill, Joe? (Laughs) Like the vise doesn't bite strong enough to get a grip so I can break the sections.

164:28:28 Irwin: Dave, if you want, I can get on the other end and hold it steady.

164:28:30 Scott: Well, you can try...

164:28:31 Irwin: Yeah.

[Jim puts his camera down on the LMP seat and goes around Dave to try to hold the stems in the vise.]
164:28:32 Scott: ...(and) see if it does any good. But the training ones hold good. There's never any problem with them.
[Scott, from the 1971 Technical Debrief - "The vise on the pallet just didn't work. At first, I thought it was on backwards. I knew darn well we'd discussed it before (the flight) and that it could only go on one way, but I just couldn't believe it was that bad. It just didn't grip at all. The hand wrench worked fine. It would grip the stems and hold them very well, but the one mounted on the pallet provided no torque at all."]

[As it turns out, the vise mounted on the back of the Rover was on backwards, but not because of any crew error.]

[The following is taken from the Apollo 15 Mission Report: "The sections of the core-stem string could not be separated using the vise and wrench because the vise had been mounted on the pallet backward. The configuration of the core stem vise is the same as that of the core-stem wrench head. (As shown in Figure 14-44), the vise is mounted on a bracket on the lunar roving vehicle aft-chassis pallet, located on the right-hand side on the vehicle (behind the LMP seat). The core-stem wrench head is similar to a conventional pipe wrench head, with one fixed jaw and one pivoted jaw. The throat width is not adjustable and is designed to fit the outside diameter of the core stem."]

["As mounted, the vise would hold the core stem so that the joint could be tightened by rotating the wrench (up and forward) on the adjoining section. However, the vise would not hold in the opposite direction (down and aft) so that the joint could be loosened and separated. Working on the inboard side of the vise (that is, by switching the core string end for end so that the top sections were behind the CDR seat and the bit end was behind the LMP seat), the core stem could have been held properly for loosening; however, there is insufficient clearance on the inboard side of the vise for wrench rotation and (as well) the distance to the other side of the lunar roving vehicle is greater than the length of a core-stem section."]

["The installation drawing of the vise was in error and has been corrected to assure correct orientation of the vise for Apollo 16. The training vise was installed backward from the erroneous drawing, but correct for loosening the stems."]

[An obvious question is: did the person who installed the training vise notice the drawing was backwards and, if so, why didn't they call attention to the fact?]

164:28:38 Irwin: Okay. Let me get on the other end. Some caps behind your left boot.

164:28:45 Scott: Oh, shoot! I knocked them off again.

164:28:47 Irwin: Here I'll get them.

164:28:48 Scott: (Dismissively) No, go get the vise! I mean the drill (stem). I think we're about through with this.

164:28:52 Irwin: Okay. I've got it.

164:28:53 Scott: Okay. (Pause)

[The fact that Dave snapped at Jim is the clearest possible indication that he is very frustrated. Characteristically for both of them, Dave recovers his composure before his next transmission and Jim graciously ignores the outburst.]

[The stems turn freely as Dave uses the wrench. The treadle is still attached to the top section and it's motions give us a good idea of how the stems are turning.]

164:28:58 Scott: Won't bite. Don't hold it that way. Hold it straight in the vise, if you can, Jim. See how it sits?

164:29:03 Irwin: Yeah.

[Jim may have been holding the stems at an angle to the vise in order to improve their chances of getting it to grip.]
164:29:04 Scott: Okay. See, it doesn't grab. There, that's got it there. Okay. Hold it like that. (Pause)
[This time, treadle moves in jerks as the stems bite in the vise and Dave starts to get the top section loose. Note that the treadle is pointed down when the vise begins to grip.]
164:29:17 Scott: Man, oh man! Okay. Hold it right there.

164:29:21 Allen: Dave, the treadle may be jammed against the fender. There it moves away. (Pause)

164:29:29 Scott: (To Joe) Yeah, I know. No problem. (Pause) (Delighted as the stem breaks free even more noticeably) There!! (Pause)

[The treadle has gone through a complete revolution and, once again, is close to the right-rear fender.]
164:29:43 Scott: Trouble is...Okay. Let go a minute. (I'll) get it out here a little ways. (Pause)
[Dave lifts the stems and pulls them out six inches or so to get the treadle clear of the fender.]
164:29:58 Scott: Hold it again, Jimmy.

164:29:59 Irwin: Okay. (Pause) Okay, I got it. (Pause)

164:30:06 Scott: Okay. Oh boy!

[Dave completes another half turn with the wrench, puts it down, and goes to his left and stands facing the Rover so that he can grab the treadle and turn it to finish removing the second stem from the string.]
164:30:11 Scott: Joe, I haven't heard you say yet you really want this that bad. (Pause) Tell me you really want it this bad.

164:30:22 Allen: (With a touch of wistful sympathy in his voice) It's hard for me to say, Dave.

[After a three-quarter turn of the treadle, the second section comes free.]
164:30:26 Allen: Beautiful.

164:30:29 Irwin: I'll get those caps for you, Dave.

164:30:31 Scott: Okay.

164:30:32 Irwin: You need those now?

164:30:33 Scott: Yeah.

164:30:34 Irwin: Okay. (Long Pause)

[Dave watches while, off-camera to the right, Jim gets the core caps off the ground. Dave reaches forward and down to take them from Jim.]
164:30:49 Scott: Okay. Thank you. (Pause) Okay. Cap number Echo.
[Dave has put the cap on the bottom of section 2]
164:30:04 Scott: Is in the next section. (Perhaps putting the caps in the SCB) Okay. (To Jim) Now, old buddy, if you think you can have some luck taking that (treadle) off. I'll tell you what, we got to break it again.
[Off-camera, Jim is helping Dave get the treadle off section 2. Although we can see Dave's PLSS and upper torso and head, his hands are off-camera and it is impossible to know exactly what he and Jim are doing.]
MP3 Audio Clip ( 15 min 54 sec ) by David Shaffer

Video Clip  2 min 01 sec ( 0.5 Mb RealVideo or 18 Mb MPG )

164:31:23 Allen: Dave, how many more sections to come apart?

164:31:25 Irwin: If you can get the wrench, I'll hold the treadle.

164:31:27 Scott: Okay. (To Joe, with clear annoyance) Oh, stand by, Joe. (Counting the remaining sections) We've got 1, 2, 3. 4.

164:31:33 Allen: Thank you.

[Dave is probably annoyed because Houston should have been able to keep count.]
164:31:35 Irwin: Okay, I've got it there if you can...

164:31:37 Scott: Yeah. (Long Pause) (Grunting) Ahhh! (Pause) Nope, wrong way. (Long Pause) That doesn't look right either. Let's go the other way. Man, how did that treadle get like that? (Long Pause)

[During the struggle to remove the treadle, Dave edges off-camera to the right.]
164:32:48 Irwin: It's moving.

164:32:49 Scott: Yeah.

164:32:50 Irwin: It's broken.

164:32:51 Scott: That's got it. (Pause) It's really jammed.

164:32:59 Irwin: See if I can get it out.

164:33:00 Scott: Work it out towards you, because of the cap. See what I mean?

164:33:04 Irwin: Yeah.

164:33:05 Scott: Take that...The end of your right hand should come through, while I work on the rest of them, here. (Pause) Okay. Foxtrot on the next section.

Video Clip  3 min 07 sec ( 0.8 Mb RealVideo or 27 Mb MPG )

164:33:20 Allen: Roger. (Long Pause)

[Dave is back in view and has put a cap on the top of the third section. He pulls the string out until the fourth section is seated in the vise. Dave starts turning the wrench but, without the treadle on the string, it is difficult to tell if he is getting any grip from the vise.]
164:33:45 Irwin: If I had known (about) this, I would have left my cover gloves on, Dave.

164:33:48 Scott: Well, don't mess with it then. Don't mess your gloves up. I'll do it.

[Evidently, Dave is still wearing his cover gloves.]
164:33:51 Irwin: Oh, they're okay. I'll take it.

164:33:54 Scott: This vise just won't hold. There's something wrong with it. (Long Pause) The vise doesn't work, at all! (To Jim) I'll have to have you hold it, the...(Pause as Dave glances at the watch on his left wrist) How about that: an hour and 15 minutes into it (meaning the EVA) already. We're still fiddling with this thing.

[Scott, from a 1996 letter - Ah ha! I did use the watch!! And I recall this.]

[Dave arrived at the drill site at about 164:03:55 and, consequently, they have been working on the deep core for about 30 minutes.]

164:34:32 Irwin: Okay. The treadle's off.

164:34:33 Scott: Beautiful! (I'll) stick this (stem-section 2) in here (SCB-2). (Pause) Now, hold that section for me...

164:34:42 Irwin: Okay.

164:34:43 Scott: ...(Like you) did before. (Pause) It's just not gripping. The...

164:34:57 Allen: Dave and Jim, this is Houston.

164:35:05 Scott: Go ahead.

164:35:06 Allen: Roger, troops. What's your best guess?

164:35:08 Irwin: (Under Joe) Try to bring that back that way, Dave?

164:35:09 Allen: Do you think you can turn off the bottom-most drill section?

[Dave takes the drill string off the back of the Rover and holds it up for Houston to see.]
164:35:17 Scott: Joe, you can see on the TV. That's what we got. Now, the vise...(correcting himself) My hand wrench works okay. The one on the back of the Hand Tool Carrier doesn't seem to want to work for some reason. It may just be because of the threads on the stems. I just can't get them broken apart! And that's the main problem. The wrenches don't work. (Pause)
[Dave puts the string back in the vise and resumes his efforts with the wrench.]
164:35:43 Allen: Dave and Jim, put that section on the ground, if you would, please.
[Dave takes the drill string out of the vise without hesitation once he hears Houston's decision.]
164:35:53 Allen: We'll pick it up on the way back. And we want you to continue on with the Grand Prix.

164:36:03 Scott: Good enough. Do that.

[During the Grand Prix, Jim will stand facing northwest and take movie footage with the Data Acquisition Camera (DAC) while Dave drives through a pre-determined set of maneuvers. They had planned to do the Grand Prix at the end of EVA-2 and the relevant cuff checklist page is EVA-2/CDR-20.]
164:36:06 Irwin: Stick it in there, Dave. We might be able to return it (to Earth) just like that.

Video Clip  1 min 00 sec ( 0.3 Mb RealVideo or 9 Mb MPG )

164:36:08 Scott: Yeah, I think probably so. I don't know where we're going to put it in the Command Module. (Jim chuckles) I'll think of something. Let me see. (Looking around) Let me put it someplace where we don't ding it. There's no place to put it. I'll lay it right here on the treadle. (Pause)

[Dave goes off-camera to the right. He is looking for a way to prop the string up so that he can see it easily when he arrives back at the site at the end of the traverse.]
164:36:25 Scott: I guess we ought to take it back (to Earth). There's more time invested in that than anything we've done. Okay. (To Jim) Get your (16-mm movie) camera.
[Jim comes into view at the back of the Rover and goes to the LMP seat. Dave is at the back of the Rover.]
164:36:36 Irwin: Okay. Let's see. We don't want the drill on here. What do you want to do with the drill?

164:36:40 Scott: Oh. Just leave it right here.

164:36:42 Irwin: Put it on the surface here?

164:36:44 Scott: Yeah. (Long Pause)

[Jim lifts the drill and merely turns so that he can put it down far enough out that Dave won't hit it when he starts driving. Jim then removes the 16-mm camera from the post next to his inboard handhold. He is going to use it for the Grand Prix.]

[Jim is not wearing his Hasselblad. The DAC has a bracket mounted on the back which would allow Jim to mount the camera on his RCU. A high-resolution detail from 11471 ( 169k ) shows the bracket.]

164:36:59 Scott: Got a good mag (on the 16-mm)? Why don't you check it out and see if it runs?

164:37:01 Irwin: I did. I checked it out at 1 foot per second earlier.

164:37:05 Scott: Okay.

164:37:06 Irwin: I'll give it a short burst here.

164:37:08 Allen: Good thinking, Jim. (Pause) Dave, while you're climbing on the Rover, we'll take...

164:37:17 Scott: High gain antenna is getting...

164:37:18 Allen: The meter readouts and your heading is 292.

[TV off. At this time, Jim is still in view and is holding the DAC in his hands. We do not know if he filmed the Grand Prix while holding the DAC or with it mounted on his RCU.]
164:37:26. Scott: Okay. Joe, I never did any systems reset, but they were all sitting zero when I stopped here.

164:37:38 Allen: Good enough for me.

164:37:42 Scott: PM1/WB. (Long Pause) Okay. Let's get our little handy...

164:38:10 Irwin: Okay. I have the (16-mm) camera set.

164:38:12 Scott: Okay. (Pause) Okay. (Looking at EVA-2 CDR-20) The Sun should be over your right shoulder, so why don't you take a right turn there. You should be 45 degrees, looking up towards Schaber Hill over there.

[Schaber Hill is the high ground immediately north of Pluton Crater. In the Command Module view linked here, Schaber Hill and the North Complex are right of center. See the discussion following 146:49:02.]
164:38:33 Irwin: You want to do a quick turn there so you don't get dust on my experiments.

164:38:36 Scott: Oh, sure. Watch out going backwards, Jim.

164:38:39 Irwin: Ah, no sweat.

164:38:41 Scott: Yeah. (Long Pause)

[Dave hasn't started driving. Jim is probably walking backwards, which can be a good way to fall down.]
164:39:13 Irwin: If you want, you can do a left turn there, Dave. And I'll move back a little more.

164:39:17 Scott: Okay. If I can get my seatbelt on. (Long Pause) Oh, my.

164:39:39 Allen: Dave, before you move out, you want to double-check your heading at 292.

164:39:46 Scott: Okay, Joe. (Long Pause) Torquing now. (Pause) Got a long way to go. (Pause) Make this torquing switch a set-and-hold switch, instead of spring loaded, would help! (Pause) Be with you in a minute, Jim. I've got to torque another 90 degrees or so.

164:40:40 Irwin: No rush.

164:40:43 Allen: Enjoy the scenery, Jimmy. (Pause)

164:40:50 Irwin: Yeah. I'm looking to find out where all the big rocks are.

164:40:53 Allen: Sounds good. And tell Dave once again that you don't want any dust on your experiments. (Jim laughs)

164:41:08 Scott: Hey, Joe, you never did tell me that drill was that important. Just tell me that it's that important, and then I'll feel a lot better. (Pause)

164:41:17 Allen: It's that important, Dave.

164:41:23 Scott: Okay. Good. Because then I don't feel like I wasted so much time.

164:41:31 Allen: No. Quite seriously, Dave and Jim, that's undoubtedly the deepest sample we'll have out of the Moon for perhaps as long as the Moon itself has been there.

[Grant Heiken, who took the core apart almost grain by grain, has called it the most valuable sample returned from the Moon. It revealed 58 distinct layers of soil, a detailed record of a very complex sequence of local impact events that covered, overturned, and re-covered this particular section.]
164:41:49 Scott: Well, that sounds good.
[The following is from an exchange of e-mail in November 2003.]

[Jones - "Grant Heiken and I have been discussing your drilling activities at Hadley and we wonder if you have any thoughts about how hazardous an activity it was. If, for example, a drill stem snapped and you fell on the exposed end, would the fall in 1/6th have been enough to compromise the suit? I know you strained your shoulder lifting the core out. Was that stressing the suit? Etc."]

[Scott - "Well, falling on the exposed end would not be good, but I believe the suit would have taken it, especially since it would have been a glancing blow. Also, I doubt that the small force I was able to put on the drill would have broken it -- remember, at 1/6 g and in a static mode, I could not put much force on the drill, I did not weigh much (regardless of how it looked on TV...!!). And the shoulder was probably due to the upward force on the drill handle when we were pushing upward with our legs, it was not due to the suit per se."]

[Jones - "During a 2001 interview with historians Stephen Ambrose and Douglas Brinkley, Neil asked to rate the risk of the landing on a scale of one to ten. 'Thirteen,' he said. When asked about the Apollo 11 EVA, he said, without hesitation, 'One.' How would you rate the drilling exercise?"]

[Scott - "Based on that scaling - thirteen, hi, for landing and one, low, for eva - about a three, risk-wise, primarily due to the difficulty in pulling the stem out and then breaking its sections - which I had to do by hand, exposing my gloves to the flutes in a compressed, twisting mode. If everything were nominal, I would say a one or two."]

164:41:52 Scott: Okay, Joe. I'm torqued to 292. And, Jim, I'll take a left turn out of here. (Pause) Making sure I don't get any dust on your experiments. (Pause) Okay. You're in a good spot.

164:42:24 Irwin: I'm ready for you.

164:42:26 Scott: Okay. Wait, let me get over here and get set up.

164:42:34 Irwin: Okay. Let me move back a little bit then.

164:42:36 Scott: No, you're okay. Right there. The Sun's over your right shoulder. That's just about right. Okay. Take a little left turn there. I'll start up and go constant, if you are ready.

164:42:54 Irwin: I'm ready.

164:42:55 Scott: Okay. (Pause) Okay; there's about 7 clicks.

164:43:05 Irwin: Camera's on. (Pause)

164:43:10 Scott: Seven kilometers an hour. Tell me when to turn.

164:43:16 Irwin: Okay; you can turn now.

164:43:18 Scott: Okay. Better. (Laughs) Okay. Here comes acceleration. Couple of di-do's here. Up to 12 clicks.

164:43:38 Irwin: Ride 'em Bronco.

164:43:39 Scott: Yeah, man. (Pause) Okay. I'm going to make a right turn.

164:43:47 Irwin: You kicked up a very nice rooster tail.

164:43:49 Scott: Good. Make a right turn here. (Pause) And I'll come back across, and give you a hard stop If I can find us a smooth spot to get going here.

164:44:10 Allen: Jim, this is Houston here. How does that camera seem to be working?

164:44:13 Scott: Okay. Here we go.

164:44:17 Irwin: It feels like it's working, Joe.

164:44:20 Scott: Here's the hard stop.

164:44:21 Irwin: Okay. We'll check it. Ah, shoot!

164:44:24 Scott: Didn't work?

164:44:25 Irwin: (Annoyed) Not working.

164:44:26 Scott: You're kidding!?

164:44:27 Irwin: The indicator is still at full.

164:44:28 Scott: Oh, boy. Want to try another mag?

164:44:32 Irwin: Guess we should.

164:44:33 Scott: No, let's do it later; because I'd have to get off and get unstrapped and everything else to get to the seatpan.

[The spare film magazines are under Dave's seat.]
164:44:39 Irwin: Okay. (To Houston) I still indicate full, Joe.
[Jim did not get any pictures of Dave's Grand Prix.]

[Scott - "This Grand Prix was designed like a Qual test in an airplane - a Qualitative Evaluation. When you go test fly an airplane, and you have only one flight to find out as much as you can about it, you prepare a very detailed flight plan that does performance, stability, and control. So we designed the Grand Prix similar to the way you would fly an airplane. Starts, stops, turns, acceleration. And it was carefully laid out in terms of speeds, accelerations, and paths. It was too bad we didn't get the film."]

[Jones - "The 'we' who laid it out was you and Jim and the Rover engineers?"]

[Scott - "Jim and I did most of it, based on test flying airplanes. We considered it an airplane, in a sense, 'cause it had a stick. In the test flying world, a Qual Test is a well understood category of flight testing. It's a one time flight where you try to get as much out of the airplane, in terms of evaluating the handbook, as you can. You take the handbook and you try to see how much you can do in an hour or something, to check everything in that handbook - all the procedures: climbing, descent, turning, acceleration. That's how you learn about the airplane, too. It's a great way to have a first flight and learn as much as you can about an airplane. In fact, when you get out of Test Pilot School, the last exam, if you will, is to 'Qual' an airplane that you've never flown before. It's like a final exam. What you write up on that Qual gives you a grade on how well you learned to test the airplane. The guys who look at what you wrote already know what the answers are, and you have to go out and find them in the airplane."]

[Jones - "Obviously, people thought the Grand Prix was important enough that they did it again on 16, to get the film."]

164:44:44 Allen: Okay, Dave and Jim. That was a good try. Let's press on towards Station 9. Let's take a good, clean comfortable look at that rille.

164:44:55 Scott: Yeah, that's a good idea, Joe. Best idea you've had all morning. I don't know what's wrong with this camera. I checked all the film again and ran it through with my finger a few times and made sure that the perforations were right on the red mark. So...(Pause)

164:45:15 Allen: Rog, Dave. We hear you. Sounds like you followed the owner's manual.

164:45:21 Scott: (To Jim) Oh, wait a minute. Uh oh; just stay right there. Let me get off. Got to get off and get over and get your seatbelt.

[Clearly, Jim has gotten seated but, as usual, can't get his seatbelt secured.]
164:45:42 Allen: Dave, while Jim is climbing on there, could you get us some Rover readouts, please?

164:45:52 Irwin: I'll give those to you, Joe. Starting with, heading...

164:45:59 Allen: Go.

164:46:00 Irwin: ...72...

164:46:01 Scott: You're going to have to get off. Do it later. Hop off. Get it later. (Long Pause) Okay, give me that extension handle, now. (Long Pause) Okay, now, why don't you try hopping up here again? Easy. Want me to hold the camera for you?

164:46:56 Irwin: I can hold it. (Pause)

164:47:02 Scott: Don't lean so far back when you get on, Jim. That's what's happening; you get your...Let your PLSS down a little bit. (Pause) Okay, you're on and strapped in. (Pause)

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