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House Rock

Corrected Transcript and Commentary Copyright © 1996 by Eric M. Jones.
All rights reserved.
Scan credits in the Image Library.
Video credits in the Video Library.
Except where noted, audio clips by Roland Speth.
Last revised 16 June 2014.

MP3 Audio Clip ( 10 min 42 sec )

167:35:37 Duke: How's our time going, Tony?

167:35:38 England: Oh, you're doing really fine. We've got an extension here, and you've got about 25 minutes (remaining).

[Charlie gets the tongs from John and goes off-camera to the right, around a large, foreground boulder, while John heads directly for the Rover.]
167:35:46 Young: Okay, Charlie. Let's go back to the Rover. Put (means "stow") your bag (meaning the hand-carried SCB) on there and head out for the big rock. Because you got a bag on your back, and we'll use it.

167:35:59 Duke: Okay.

Video Clip ( 2 min 55 sec 0.8 Mb RealVideo or 26 Mb MPEG )

167:36:03 England: We think that sounds like a great plan.

[Fendell pulls back on the zoom and pans right.]
167:36:07 Duke: Didn't need...(Stops to listen)

167:36:10 Young: Look at the size of that biggie (meaning House Rock)!

[Charlie crosses the TV field-of-view from right to left, headed for the Rover.]
167:36:11 Young: It is a biggie, isn't it. It may be further away than we think because...

167:36:17 Duke: No, it's not very far. It was just right beyond you (when he was sampling north of the Rover after 166:56:58).

167:36:19 Young: Theoretically, huh?

167:36:20 Duke: Yeah.

167:36:21 Young: Like everything else around here, a couple of weeks later (you still aren't there)...

[John is saying that things are always farther away than they seem and that trips take longer than he expects. Because there is no atmospheric haze to give an impression of distance, it is very difficult to judge the size and distance of distant objects.]

[In 1835, Charles Darwin had a similar problem judging distances while traveling in the Andes east of Santiago, Chile, in March 1835: "Travelers having observed the difficulty of judging heights and distances amidst lofty mountains, have generally attributed it to the absence of objects of comparison. It appears to me, that it is fully as much owing to the transparency of the air confounding objects at different distances, and likewise partly to the novelty of an unusual degree of fatigue arising from a little exertion,—habit being thus opposed to the evidence of the senses. I am sure that this extreme clearness of the air gives a peculiar character to the landscape, all objects appearing to be brought nearly into one plane, as in a drawing or panorama. The transparency is, I presume, owing to the equable and high state of atmospheric dryness." - from The Voyage of the Beagle, p 347.]

[Fendell stops the pan to give the Backroom another look into North Ray while he waits for John and Charlie to leave the Rover.]

[House Rock can be seen at CZ.2/80.6 in the "Descartes EVA-III 3 of 3" map in the Lunar Surface Procedures volume. As indicated in Figure 6-65 in the Preliminary Science Report, House Rock is about 12 meters tall, 16 by 20 meters across, and is about 220 meters from the Rover. At 167:17:38, John only slightly underestimated the distance of House Rock from the Rover as being 150 meters.]

167:36:23 Duke: Okay. Let's see. I got the shovel (means "tongs"). The rake's best choice (for collecting soil and small rocks). And I got some bags and...
[Charlie crosses the TV field-of-view from left to right, carrying the tongs.]
167:36:30 Young: You got enough bags? I'll leave mine here.
[Charlie stops to do a rough sample bag count.]
167:36:33 Duke: Well, I've only got...I got about 10 or so.

167:36:37 Young: Okay. That's how many I got.

167:36:39 Duke: Okay. Bring yours, too.

[Charlie starts running toward House Rock. Fendell pans right to follow but cannot pan fast enough to keep him in view.]
167:36:43 Young: A rake and a shovel, right?

167:36:44 Duke: No, not the shovel.

167:36:45 Young: Want the rake?

[John comes into view, carrying the rake. He does a couple of two-footed hops as he gets up to speed.]
167:36:46 Duke: Yeah, the rake is the best way.

167:36:48 Young: That's what I got.

[Fendell finally gets both John and Charlie in view and gets a very nice sequence of both of them running at speed. They are both using the loping, foot-to-foot stride.]
167:36:49 Duke: Okay. (Pause) We'll stop about halfway down here and do another rake. How's that?

167:36:57 Young: Sounds like a good idea, Charlie.

167:37:00 Duke: (Doing his W.C. Fields voice) Ah, the old footprints on the crater rim! (Pause) That's about halfway. Maybe. (Pause) Okay. Let me just stab (which he pronounces "staub") this (pair of tongs) down here somewhere. (Pause)

[Charlie stops at the location marked "area of 67710 (rake)" in figure 6-65 in the Preliminary Science Report. He is about 56 meters from the TV camera and the run took about 32 seconds. His average speed was about 6.3 km/hr. Only Dave Scott's 7.0 km/hr run back to the Rover from the Station 7 boulder was faster.]

[Charlie plants the tongs to serve as a gnomon. John arrives at the sampling site. The trip took him about 41 seconds and his average speed was 4.9 km/hr. After he stops, John looks toward House Rock.]

167:37:26 Young: Well, I think we'd get permanently shadowed (sample) under that big rock. Look at that fillet on this side, Charlie.

167:37:31 Duke: Okay. Well, we need the shovel for that.

167:37:33 Young: Get it with this here (rake)!

[John backs up to take a cross-Sun stereopair, AS16-116- 18644 and 18645. Charlie goes around the tongs to the north to get into position to take a down-Sun "before".]
167:37:35 Duke: Okay. Yeah, we can reach in there if...(Looking at the shadow area under House Rock) I see what you mean. Uh-huh. (Pause)Okay. (Pause)
[John moves in to get the sample.]
167:37:52 Duke: Wait a minute. Wait, wait, wait.
[Charlie takes the down-Sun, AS16-106- 17339.]
167:37:55 Duke: Don't know why I'm taking that (as a) down-Sun; (I) don't have the (color/gray-scale) chart in there. (Long Pause)
[Cross-Sun pictures show far greater detail than down-Suns, but down-Suns can provide fully lit images of the color/gray-scale on the gnomon so that the true color and albedo of the rocks can be determined. John and Charlie have not been using the broken gnomon but, it is probably at this moment that someone in Houston realizes that the color/gray-scale can still be used. Tony will make the suggestion at 168:23:18 at the start of the Station 13 activities. My thanks to Brian Lawrence calling my attention to this point.]

[John steps forward with the rake and Charlie takes up a position north of him and takes a "locator", AS16-106- 17340. As shown in the picture, John is standing with his knees slightly bent and the rake in his right hand. He starts each swath by dropping the tines onto the surface slightly behind his right leg and then dragging the rake forward a half meter or so. He does three swaths, shaking some of the dirt out after each one. Charlie has a sample bag ready.]

167:38:23 Duke: (To Houston) Okay. He's getting a couple of whitish frags, and then dust-covered, gray-looking frags. Think you got a bag full there, John.

167:38:34 Young: Yep, three scoops and a bag full.

[John raises the rake and steps toward Charlie to do the pour.]
167:38:36 Duke: It's all salted with that one white rock there. (Pause as John pours) Super. Now, okay.

167:38:51 England: We agree; it's super.

[Charlie spins the bag to close it.]
167:38:53 Duke: Okay., that's in 423, Tony.

Video Clip ( 3 min 15 sec 0.8 Mb RealVideo or 29 Mb MPEG )

167:38:55 England: Okay, 423.

167:38:57 Duke: Okay.

[Charlie looks around for the hand-carried SCB. Once he realizes he doesn't have it anymore, he hands bag 423 to John and turns to present his SCB. John gives him the rake and stows the sample bag.]
167:38:59 Young: Hang onto this, for a second. That's going in Charlie's SCB.

167:39:08 England: Okay.

167:39:09 Duke: Try an "after" of that, John, and I'll get the soil sample.

[John gets into position to take a cross-Sun "after" from the south, AS16-116- 18646.]
167:39:14 Young: There's the "after".

167:39:15 Duke: Okay. (Pause)

[Charlie steps in to get a soil sample with the rake.]
167:39:20 Duke: Man, it's hard under there, you know it?

167:39:22 Young: Yeah. That's why the rake wouldn't go down.

167:39:25 Duke: (Garbled)

167:39:27 Young: I'm not going anywhere. Hit it again.

167:39:32 Duke: Tony, there must be a big rock right under here.

167:39:35 Young: Yeah. It's...

[After three attempts, Charlie doesn't have enough soil to do a pour.]
167:39:37 Duke: I can't get the rake in, but that's just...

167:39:40 Young: Oh, look at that, Charlie.

167:39:41 Duke: I know, it's all white under here, isn't it?

167:39:42 Young: Yeah.

[John steps back a meter or so and kicks the soil to see what he might find. Evidently, he is standing on a thicker soil patch. Charlie finally gets enough of a sample to do a pour and steps toward John, who gets a bag out.]
167:39:47 Duke: Okay, Tony. Down about a centimeter or less, it's all white.

167:39:54 England: Okay. You feel like that's...

167:39:55 Duke: (Lost under Tony)

167:39:56 England: ...a rock surface?

[Charlie does the pour.]
167:39:59 Duke: Yeah, I think it might be a rock surface and it's one of those friable ones, the fractured ones, and we're just chipping off (fragments)...Here, John, I can get a soil sample from where you kicked it up with your foot. (Pause)
[John backs up and Charlie gets a soil sample from the place where John was standing.]
167:40:17 Duke: Agh. Oh, boy. (Pause)
[Charlie raises the rake and pours some soil into the bag.]
167:40:21 Young: Okay. Get a...

167:40:23 Duke: Okay. You want another one? (Pause)

[Charlie gets some more soil.]
167:40:34 Young: Okay, Houston. That soil sample is going in bag...(Pause)

167:40:41 Duke: 388, Tony.

167:40:42 England: Okay, 388. (Pause)

[John spins the bag closed and Charlie presents his SCB.]
167:40:44 England: And we better...

167:40:45 Duke: Okay...

167:40:45 England: ...press on for the big boulder.

167:40:47 Duke: (Lost under Tony)

[John stows the sample bag in Charlie's SCB.]
167:40:50 Duke: (Responding to Tony as he turns toward House Rock) Okay. We're headed that way. You get the tongs, John?
[Charlie starts running toward House Rock while John grabs the tongs and follows.]
167:40:54 Young: Yep. I got them.

167:40:55 Duke: I'll carry the rake. (Pause) Okay, Tony; my guess is that most of these rocks around here are extremely shocked. (Pause)

167:41:09 Young: (Garbled) (Pause)

167:41:14 Duke: All these in this area look the same. Hope that thing is not coming off.

[Charlie reaches a slope change and begins to go downslope toward House Rock. John stops and looks at a partially buried boulder which is just east of their path.]
167:41:21 Young: Yeah. In the sunlight, Houston, this white rock has sort of a greenish hue to it, this white rock breccia. Which is what all this is we're walking on right now, is this white rock breccia that Charlie chipped out of...(Pause as John starts running again) And I guess this is probably the second layer up. I would reckon that, if we could see to the bottom (of North Ray), we could say for sure if this big black rock is right out of the bottom. But my guess, from the old (pre-mission) photographs, it probably is.

167:41:59 England: Okay. That sounds like a good guess.

[Charlie stops and looks up at House Rock. He is probably near the large fragment known as Outhouse Rock, which is just south of the main boulder as shown in Figure 6-65 in the Preliminary Science Report.]
167:42:00 Young: Look. See this rock right here, Charlie?!

167:42:03 Duke: Look at the size of that rock!

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167:42:07 England: We can see.

167:42:10 Duke: The closer I get to it, the bigger it is.

167:42:13 Young: Yeah, but look at the permanent shadowed part, Charlie.

167:42:14 Duke: On this (east) side over here?

[John reaches the southern face of Outhouse Rock.]
167:42:15 Young: Yeah. No, right here on this one. See that shadow? That must be permanent.

167:42:20 Duke: No, I bet you it's not. (Pointing west) The Sun's going (to go) down over there, John.

167:42:25 Young: Yeah, you're right.

167:42:26 Duke: See. (Pause) If you come back here in two weeks, and...(rethinking about where the Sun will be in two weeks) it'll be dark! (Laughs) Well, maybe a week, and you'd have Sun over there.

[Charlie goes around the east side of Outhouse Rock and John follows.]
167:42:39 Duke: Okay, Tony, this is a very blocky area here.

167:42:43 Young: And look at the shape of that rascal.

167:42:50 Duke: Yeah. (Pause) We don't see any glass, though, particularly.

167:42:57 Young: No, I guess I'd have to call this a black matrix (breccia). Looks like the matrix has reversed itself now, it's all black matrix.

[Charlie is standing ten meters or so east of House Rock and has all but disappeared from view. We get only an occasional glimpse of the top of his helmet and OPS. John is still visible near the east side of the boulder but, because of his distance from the Rover, even at maximum zoom it is difficult to tell what he is doing.]
167:43:11 Duke: Well, Tony, that's your "house rock" right there.

167:43:14 England: Very good.

167:43:15 Young: Charlie, don't get too near the edge of that thing, it falls off. Look over at your right; it falls off pretty good.

167:43:21 Duke: Yeah, I know. I'm gonna just take a little stereo here.

[Charlie takes a sequence of four pictures of the base of House Rock, AS16-106- 17341, 17342, 17343, and 17344. He turns slightly between frames, making the sequence a partial pan.]
167:43:30 Young: Okay, now we had to come down a pretty good slope to get to this rock, so we may have to leave early to get back.

167:43:35 Duke: Yes, sir. I agree.

167:43:36 England: You've got about 17 minutes before you'll have to drive off, so we'll have to hustle with this. (Pause)

[John disappears behind Outhouse Rock. He reappears briefly, probably having made his way around some boulders but then, as Charlie joins him, they both go out of sight.]
167:43:52 Duke: Okay, John. Here's a...(Pause) Looky here. Can we whack with the...(Pause) See, look at that. See, it's glass coated, and this is just fractured off. We could pull that off. Big chunks of that'll come right off.

167:44:14 Young: Right.

167:44:15 Duke: And it's got a bluish tint to it, doesn't it?

167:44:19 Young: It does.

167:44:20 Duke: It doesn't look like the (pause) real basalt.

167:44:24 Young: Look at that shatter cone right there, Charlie. I'll be darned.

167:44:28 Duke: It is. Yeah.

167:44:29 Young: I'm sure.

167:44:30 Duke: Right there.

167:44:31 England: Outstanding.

167:44:32 Young: Maybe there's two of them.

167:44:33 Duke: Yeah. Put your tongs up there, and I'll get a close-up...

167:44:36 England: Yeah, make a good picture of that one for Muehlberger.

167:44:39 Young: Well, that settles that, huh?.

[Charlie's close-up of the shatter cone is AS16-106 17345. See, also, Figure 17 in the North Ray chapter of the Professional Paper.]

[Fendell moves his aim to the right to get a full-frame view of House Rock at maximum zoom. After several seconds, he moves the TV a short distance to the left and then moves it back to the direction where we last saw the crew.]

167:44:41 Duke: Okay, move it (meaning the tongs) down a little bit.
[Charlie takes a second picture of the shatter cone, AS16-106- 17346.]
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167:44:42 Young: That settles that, doesn't it, Houston?

167:44:45 Duke: Okay, got it. (Pause) (To Houston) Okay, here's a chunk of it. The black rock looks...Some of it's glass-coated, Tony, and man, that is a shatter cone.

167:45:00 Young: Charlie, let's get a piece of it.

167:45:01 Duke: Okay, here you go. I got a piece.

167:45:02 Young: Okay.

167:45:03 Duke: Give me a bag. (Pause) Okay, on the next one, how about stepping back and as I point to it, I'll pull off another piece; and we'll put a couple of pieces in here.

167:45:18 Young: Okay.

167:45:20 Duke: Okay. That's going in bag 389.

167:45:22 Young: Wait a minute. Let me...Hold it up.

167:45:23 Duke: Okay, let's just...

167:45:26 Young: Okay, I'll take a picture.

167:45:27 Duke: Take a picture of that so they'll know where it came from.

[John takes seven pictures, AS16-116- 18647, 18648, 18649, 18650, 18651, 18652, and 18653 during this Outhouse Rock sampling operation. Note that Charlie has a pack of sample bags hooked to his little finger.]
167:45:29 England: Okay. We copy. 389.

167:45:31 Duke: It's pretty badly shattered, Tony, so I don't know whether it's going to stay together or not.

167:45:38 Young: Hit it, Charlie. I got the pictures. (Pause) I really (garbled). That's right near the shatter cone. Ha, ha.

167:45:47 Duke: Yeah.

167:45:49 Young: I might suspect as much. Now, don't worry about that.

167:45:57 Duke: Okay; that's four little samples...

167:45:58 Young: Scoot back; and why don't I get an "after"?

167:46:00 Duke: Okay. (Pause)

[We get a glimpse of the back of somebody's PLSS.]
MP3 Audio Clip ( 9 min 33 sec )

167:46:11 Duke: Okay, five samples in 389, Tony...

167:46:14 England: Okay, 389.

167:46:15 Duke: ...of that black. There's a vein...Look at that veinlet running through...

167:46:21 Young: Yeah.

167:46:22 Duke: ...Right there, John, of a breccia. Man, that's a big rock. Wow. Whew.

[These samples are 67935-37, which have an aggregate weight of about 230 grams. They are shown in Figures 79A to 79E in the Professional Paper.]

[Fendell shifts his aim up to get a view of some of the boulders scattered on the flank of Smoky Mountain that forms the backdrop. He then moves his aim up slope in steps until he is looking at the summit.]

167:46:30 Duke: Okay, John. Here's this white stuff. Here's a rock, John, that is not a breccia...

167:46:37 Young: Yeah.

167:46:38 Duke: ...and it's, and it's...

167:46:39 Young: A clast in the black rock.

167:46:40 Duke: ...it's a clast in a black rock. Look here. How about that?

167:46:46 Young: Let put that in your bag.

167:46:47 Duke: Okay.

167:46:48 Young: Put it back where you got it for a second and let me...

167:46:52 Duke: Okay.

167:46:53 Young: ...get a picture of it before...Well, they can fit it in...No, just a little way; they can fit it in. (Pause) Okay. Is that how it was, more or less?

[At John's suggestion, Charlie is holding the sample in about it's original position.]
167:47:02 Duke: Yeah, more or less.

167:47:03 Young: Okay, now I'll get it.

[Fendell pans down to find John and Charlie.]
167:47:06 Duke: Get an "after".

167:47:10 Young: See. That has a clast of that rock in it, too.

[The "after" may be AS16-116- 18652.]

[This sample is 67915. It weighs 2.5 kilograms and is shown in Figures 78A and 78B in the Professional Paper.]

167:47:11 Duke: Okay, that's a...I wish we could partially stick that in a bag.
[The tops of John and Charlie's EMUs come into view.]
167:47:15 Young: Why don't we stick it in your bag?

167:47:16 Duke: Oh, okay. I mean one of these (individual sample), 'cause it might break up. Okay, that's 424.

167:47:23 Young: No, it ain't gonna break up.

167:47:24 Duke: It ain't gonna...Okay.

[Evidently, Charlie discards the sample bag and we see it pop into view. The bag strikes the side of House Rock about four meters up and then falls to the ground behind Outhouse Rock.]
167:47: Duke: Okay, Tony. That's unbagged, and it's grapefruit size. And it was a white matrix. It's not as nearly shocked, and it's a large clast - about a 3-meter clast - out of this big black rock - part of it.

167:47:41 Young: 3 meter?

167:47:42 Duke: No, this clast is about 3 meters.

167:47:45 Young: Centimeters, Charlie.

167:47:47 Duke: Huh? Well, it goes from here all the way up to there.

167:47:51 Young: Oh! The one you're talking about.

167:47:52 Duke: Yeah.

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167:47:53 Young: Did you get a stereo of that? Did you get a flight line of that?

167:47:55 Duke: Yeah. Uh-huh.

167:47:56 Young: Okay.

167:47:58 Duke: Okay. Well, I got a pan of it. (Pause) Okay, John, we'll whack off another...Could you get a picture of this (pause) where the hammer is? Let me get some of the unshocked...The white stuff.

167:48:12 Young: Wait a second. Go.

167:48:16 Duke: Okay. Got it?

167:48:19 Young: Yeah. (Pause)

[John's picture may be AS16-116- 18653.]

[Although the images are very small in a grainy scene, Charlie is facing left in our view and is evidently striking the rock at about chest height. Motions of the hammer are visible and indicate that he raises the hammer to head height for each swing.]

167:48:26 Young: Hard, isn't it?

167:48:28 Duke: Yeah, it's hard. But it's gonna come...I'm gonna get a piece of it.

167:48:33 Young: I got it, Charlie.

167:48:34 Duke: Okay. Here's a good piece right up here. (Pause)

167:48:44 Young: (I've got a) bag open.

167:48:46 Duke: Okay, I got it. Okay, Tony. Of the white clast - it's not nearly as shocked - is going in 425.

167:48:56 Young: Wait a minute. Here's...

167:48:57 England: Okay. Bag 425.

167:49:01 Duke: Okay. Here's another piece right there, John.

167:49:02 Young: Okay.

167:49:04 Duke: And here's another big piece right over here.

[These samples are 67955, which have an aggregate weight of about 170 grams and are shown in Figures 80A to 80C in the Professional Paper.]
167:49:07 England: Did y'all see a permanently shadowed sample around there?

167:49:13 Young: Nope, we don't.

167:49:15 Duke: No. Sure don't.

167:49:16 England: Okay. Our best guess is that it should be on the south side...

167:49:18 Duke: There's a big hole...(Stops to listen)

167:49:19 England: ...if there's any.

167:49:24 Young: Well, we were over on the south side, and we didn't see any.

167:49:27 England: Okay. Fine.

167:49:29 Young: The hole, unfortunately, is sort of...(Pause) That's sort of an east-west split there, Charlie.

167:49:36 Duke: I know it. It is an east-west split. Tony, we got an east-west split here, that we can get the rake in.

[Photo AS16-106- 17354, which Charlie hasn't taken yet, shows the east-west split between House Rock and Outhouse Rock.]
167:49:46 England: Why don't you go ahead and take some soil out of that.

167:49:48 Duke: Here, John. (Responding to Tony) Okay. (To Young) Put that in mine. How's our time going?

167:49:55 England: Oh, you're gonna to have to leave after this sample.

167:50:01 Duke: Okay. I was gonna say, it's probably a long hike back up that hill. (Pause)

167:50:09 Young: In there or not, Charlie?

167:50:11 Duke: Huh? Yeah, I can get in here. Right up next to this rock right here will be a good place. I got it! Ha Ha. (Pause)

[Charlie is getting a soil sample from inside the split.]
167:50:26 Young: (I've got to) get the bag square (meaning properly oriented). Okay.

167:50:33 Duke: Wait a minute, I'll give you a little bit more. (Pause)

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167:50:46 Young: It's not a classic east-west split, Houston, but it's one.

167:50:50 England: Okay. Fine.

167:50:51 Young: Going in bag 390.

167:50:52 England: Okay. Bag 390. And we need a reference soil.

167:50:56 Young: Hold these tongs for a second?

167:51:01 Duke: (To Tony) Okay. (Pause)

167:51:05 Young: Don't go down there 5 meters. I don't want you...

167:51:07 Duke: I'm not. (Pause) Here you go.

167:51:15 Young: Okay.

167:51:16 Duke: Here you go.

167:51:19 Young: Okay. (Pause)

[John moves away from House Rock to the east.]
167:51:23 Duke: I guess you ought to stick the tongs in, and we ought to document this.

167:51:27 Young: Okay.

167:51:29 Duke: We'll do a partial (pan), and I'll do a cross-Sun of it.

167:51:34 Young: If we're gonna do a reference sample, let's get that piece of glass right there.

167:51:36 Duke: Okay.

167:51:39 Young: The tongs are not gonna go in this ground, Charlie.

167:51:41 Duke: I know it. It's a big rock down there. Why don't you just hold it there, and I'll take the picture. Okay?

167:51:47 Young: Okay.

167:51:48 Duke: Click. Click. Okay. (Pause)

[We can see Charlie step to his right between frames of the cross-Sun stereopair, AS16-106- 17347 and 17348. These pictures give us a good view of John's sample bags.]
167:52:00 Duke: (See) if you can kick up some, John. (Pause)
[Charlie joins John but, even at maximum zoom, it is difficult to see who is doing what. The following dialog indicates that, as usual, Charlie is using the rake and John is holding a sample bag open. As Charlie mentions in just a moment, there is very little soil at this location and Charlie is probably asking John if he can kick some soil loose.]
167:52:08 Young: Got it? You got it.

167:52:10 Duke: Okay, Tony. The soil here is very hard, and the rake really won't go into it. Bending the tines like we used to do in training.

167:52:20 England: Right. Understand. If you can see anything around there that's kind of loose and not in an east-west split, kind of scoop some of that up. If you can't, we'll just have to leave it.

167:52:34 Young: There's nothing loose. (Pause) Charlie's got something.

167:52:35 Duke: Okay, there's about 25 grams.

167:52:41 England: Okay. That's fine. That's all I need.

[Charlie raises the rake and pours.]
167:52:46 Duke: Okay. Got it?

167:52:48 Young: (Thinking about what Tony said) That's all Tony needs. (Are) you PI on this one, Tony?

167:52:54 England: No. I said, 'that's all they need'.

167:52:58 Young: Oh, okay. (Pause)

167:53:07 Duke: There's a real frothy rock right there, John. You want to throw that in? (Straining, perhaps picking up the sample or helping John do so) (Pause) Doesn't look like you're...There you go. (Pause)

[Charlie is describing sample 67975, a 447-gram piece of glass-coated breccia which is shown in Figures 82A, 82B, and 82C in the Professional Paper.]
167:53:23 Young: Oh, man, I...(Garbled) Here, can you hold this, Charlie?

167:53:28 Duke: What? The tongs?

167:53:31 Young: Yeah. For a second.

167:53:32 Duke: Yeah.

167:53:33 Young: Got to do that bag better. (Pause)

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167:53:38 Duke: Man, that rock (possibly Outhouse Rock) had just cracked off just in the right...(Facing House Rock) Okay, Tony. This large block is a very...The house-sized one, it's about 20 - (still estimating) 30...(more certain) 20 meters long, by maybe 10 meters high, and it's a large breccia. Got a grab sample going in 393, white matrix with glass on it, and it's a...

[John has a bag out and, after they put the glass-coated rock in it, Charlie turns to present his SCB.]
167:54:05 Young: Don't back up any more, Charlie.

167:54:06 Duke: I'm sorry. Lost my balance. It (meaning House Rock)'s got some fractures in it that run north...

167:54:11 Young: Let's go on back.

167:54:12 Duke: Okay.

167:54:12 Young: (lost under Tony)

167:54:13 England: Okay, and we'll have to start on back.

167:54:17 Duke: Okay, here you go. Here you go, John.

167:54:19 Young: Huh?

167:54:20 Duke: Here's your tongs. Would you pick up my bag and let me move down and get a little bit of stereo, and I'll be right with you.

167:54:25 Young: Okay. Let's go on back.

167:54:26 Duke: I am. Be right with you. (Pause)

[Charlie moves a short distance northeast and then turns and takes a second portrait of the base of House Rock consisting of frames AS16- 17349 to 17354. Eric Nelson has created a red-blue anaglyph from 17349 and 17350.]

[In Houston, Jim Lovell, the spokesman for the Backroom, requests that the crew use the padded bags to return a sample of igneous rock, if they can quickly find anything they are sure is igneous.]

167:54:35 England: Did you see anything that you were pretty confident was igneous? I'm thinking about the padded bags. (Laughter).

167:54:45 Duke: Yeah, this rock we...Oh.

167:54:51 Young: (Thinking about the question) An igneous rock.

167:54:53 Duke: Yeah, if we'd of brought the padded bags...This right here is an igneous rock.

167:54:56 Young: The whole place looks igneous, Houston.

167:54:59 England: Were there any near the Rover?

167:55:01 Duke: These large clasts in it are igneous...(Stops to listen)

167:55:02 England: Right. For the padded bags,...

167:55:03 Young: (Lost under Tony) You mean "black"...

167:55:03 England: ...we would want it lying on the surface.

167:55:08 Young: ...Is that what you're talking about, volcan(ic)...(Stops to listen)

[Charlie joins John near the split.]
167:55:13 Duke: (To John) I'll take the bags. (Laughing) (I) can't get them out...

167:55:17 Young: (Lost under Charlie)

167:55:18 Duke: ...of the tongs.

[Evidently, they dropped some of the sample bags and, in the process of retrieving them with the tongs, got them caught.]
167:55:19 Young: Well, you're gonna have to hold that so I can get the tongs unloose.

167:55:22 Duke: Wait a minute.

167:55:23 Young: Hold the bag.

167:55:24 Duke: I'm trying to! (Pause)

167:55:30 Young: I can't believe it.

167:55:31 Duke: Got it. I can't either. Let's go. (Pause)

[Charlie heads for the Rover with John following.]
MP3 Audio Clip ( 13 min 11 sec )

167:55:39 Duke: (Can) y'all see us all the way down here, Tony?

167:55:41 England: We're just seeing you now. When you were around the corner there, we didn't see you very much.

167:55:45 Young: Okay, take it easy. Take it easy, Charlie.

167:55:50 Duke: Sorry. (To Tony) Sorry we had to get down in here, but that was a unique sample we thought, and...

167:55:57 Young: Okay. This big black rock, this big black and white rock right here that we're just traversing by, is also the same kind of rock. Man, look at the size of it.

167:56:08 Duke: They're all the same. There are two rock types here, Tony: that white matrix one, and then the black...the one with the black that...

167:56:13 Young: And in places where the black and the white are about 50-50 down here too.

Video Clip ( 2 min 52 sec 0.7 Mb RealVideo or 25 Mb MPEG )

167:56:21 Duke: Mm-hmm.

167:56:23 Young: But there are very few of those.

167:56:26 Duke: And it has the same character of the rocks - up close - that I would think that South Ray rocks had, when you look on the rim of that crater.

167:56:35 England: Okay. Understand. (Pause)

167:56:47 Young: Can we put those two rock bags under your seat, Tony, or you got too much stuff in there now?

[John has just called Charlie "Tony".]
167:56:52 Duke: (Getting his revenge) What did you say, Ralph?

167:56:57 Young: I said (laughing as he realizes what he's done) put those two rock bags under your seat.

167:57:02 Duke: Sure.

167:57:11 England: If you see a fist-sized, igneous rock near the Rover, we'll use the padded bags here. If not, we'll just forget them. For now.

167:57:16 Duke: Okay.

167:57:22 Young: Well, but...How's...It's gonna...Charlie, there's your polarimetry thing (meaning the polarimetry filter Charlie used earlier in the stop).

167:57:26 Duke: I took it off and threw it away. (Pause)

[Charlie is carrying the rake. John probably has the tongs.]
167:57:32 Young: It's gonna be...I bet you all this stuff up here is really shocked, Houston. Does that make any difference to you? And, therefore, is not gonna be too (meaning "very") hard.
[Houston wants to use the padded bags for some very hard samples such as basalt.]
167:57:44 England: Rog. We understand. (Pause) All right, if you find a good dense one that you think has got a good hard surface on it, we'll go ahead and take it.

167:57:59 Young: Take it, huh? Hmm. Alright

167:58:03 Duke: Well, they're pretty dust covered. I'll tell you what, we'll pick one up and give it a try anyway.

167:58:07 England: Okay. That's the best we can do.

167:58:09 Young: Charlie, I've got one right here.

[John stops near the location marked "67235" in Figure 6-65 in the Preliminary Science Report.]
167:58:10 Duke: (To John) You would. (To Houston) Well! We're back. The old ticker is really thumping, I bet you.
[Charlie used the foot-to-foot, loping stride all the way back to the Rover, Making an allowance for the detours he had to make around boulders and craters near House Rock, he ran about 145 meters and made the trip in 2 minutes 40 seconds. His average speed was 3.3 km/hr and the relatively slow pace was probably due to the fact that he was running upslope. John also used the loping stride and covered about 115 meters before he stopped. His average speed was about 2.6 km/hr.]

[John takes a down-Sun stereopair of "befores", AS16-116- 18654 and 18655. Note that these pictures are taken in a direction at right angles to the line of footprints.]

167:58:22 England: No, you're doing fine. You got up to about 120 (beats per minute) is all.

167:58:29 Duke: Is that all?!

167:58:31 England: Okay; 128, in fact.

[John and Charlie's EVA-3 heart rates are shown in Figures 10-5a and 10-5b, respectively, in the Mission Report.]

[John hops around to the north and takes a cross-Sun stereopair, AS16-116- 18656 and 18657.]

167:58:38 Duke: The orange (which he pronounces "oh-ranj") juice comes in great.

167:58:42 England: Right. Deke says (that)...

167:58:43 Young: (Lost under Tony) getting the suit.

167:58:43 England: ...if you'd been exercising the last few days, you'd be in better shape.

167:58:50 Duke: Man, we wore the rope out on the Exer-Genie.

[An Exer-Genie is a simple piece of exercise equipment, probably an elastic cord they could hook to their feet or to the Command Module bulkhead so they could stretch against resistance and get some exercise during the trip out from Earth.]
167:58:54 Young: No. We didn't wear the rope out!

167:58:58 Duke: (Laughing) I's (sic) just teasing, boss. (Pause; John laughs)

[John takes a second cross-Sun stereopair of "befores" from the north, AS16-116- 18658 and 18659, and then a "locator" to the Rover, 18660. Note that the absence of a gnomon makes it much more difficult to compare features in successive photographs.]
Video Clip ( 2 min 47 sec 0.7 Mb RealVideo or 24 Mb MPEG )

167:59:09 Duke: John, I hope you got the shovel.

167:59:11 Young: Charlie, I ain't got the shovel. (We) didn't take it down there.

167:59:12 Duke: No.

167:59:14 England: You didn't take it down.

167:59:16 Young: Where did we leave it?

167:59:20 England: Should be on the Rover.

167:59:21 Duke: Here it is in your seat. Whew. Yeah. It's on the Rover. (Pause)

[John steps forward and uses the tongs to collect sample 67235, a 938-gram dark-matrix breccia shown in Figures 67A, 67B, and 67C in the Professional Paper. John raises the tongs so that the handle is lower than the head.]
167:59:30 Young: It'll be too big for a padded bag.

167:59:31 Duke: No, it'll go in. (Pause)

[John heads for the Rover. As he gets close, we can see the rock still in the tongs. Note that he did not take any "afters" of this sample.]
167:59:37 Young: I think it's too big, Charlie.

167:59:39 Duke: Well, let's give it a go. (Pause) Okay, Tony. While we were gone, we got a (Rover Battery Temperature) caution flag.

167:59:48 England: Okay. Understand.

[This is the caution flag which sits on the top of the Rover console as shown in Figure 1-22 in the LRV Operations Handbook. The flag normally lies along the top of the console and flips upright when, for example, one of the battery temperatures exceeds 125 F.]

[As John goes off-camera to the left, Fendell pulls back on the zoom and pans left.]

167:59:50 Duke: Something popped up...

167:59:51 Young: (Lost under Charlie) battery temp.

167:59:52 England: That's the Batt 2 temp.

[Charlie hasn't heard Tony and looks at the battery temperatures.]
167:59:53 Duke: I think it's the battery temp. Number 2 is 135 (degrees Fahrenheit or 57 Celsius).

167:59:58 England: That's okay. When we drive off here, we'll put them all on Battery 1.

168:00:05 Duke: Okay. (Long Pause)

[Fendell stops the counter-clockwise pan and reverses direction, panning right.]
168:00:19 Duke: Okay. Now, I'm going to put these stuff under...There you go.

168:00:25 Young: Think that'll go in there?

168:00:26 Duke: Yeah, just push it in; it'll go in. A little big, but it'll do it. Why don't you put it (meaning the padded bag) in (SCB) number 6 there, John. Now...(Pause) Let's see if I can find another one here.

[Fendell finds Charlie at the LMP seat. He turns to his right and takes the scoop east of the Rover to find another padded-bag sample.]
168:00:51 Young: Okay; but get a smaller one, Charlie.

168:00:52 Duke: I am. (Long Pause)

[In Houston, Flight Director Pete Frank is eager to get John and Charlie on the Rover and headed for the next station. "EVA", the spokesman for the group keeping track of EVA tasks, reminds him that Charlie needs to change DAC magazines before they leave.]

[Charlie hits a couple of fist-sized rocks with the scoop to check their hardness.]

168:01:15 England: If one of you are free there, we'd like to switch out...

168:01:17 Duke: That one won't work (meaning that the rocks he's hit are too fragile).

168:01:18 England: ...the mag in the DAC. (Pause)

[Charlie moves a meter or so north and hits a third rock a couple of times with the scoop.]
168:01:28 Duke: Okay. In about 2 seconds, we'll be free, Tony.

168:01:30 England : Okay. Good show.

[Fendell has zoomed in on a meter-sized, white boulder near the right-front Rover wheel. Charlie is just beyond the boulder. He plants the scoop and hops back to take a cross-Sun stereopair, AS16-106- 17355 and 17356. In the photos, we can see an imprint beyond the rock that marks its original location.]
168:01:31 Duke: Boy, I'll tell you, this regolith is about a inch deep here in most places. It's....There's just lots of rocks under this stuff, Tony. This tells me it's...

Video Clip ( 3 min 1 sec 0.8 Mb RealVideo or 27 Mb MPEG )

168:01:47 England: That's really interesting. You know, I didn't expect that.

168:01:50 Duke: ...(lost under Tony) than South Ray is. (Stops to listen)

[Charlie steps forward, grabs the scoop, slides it under the sample, and lifts it without apparent difficulty.]
168:01:56 Duke: Anywhere...You can barely get the shovel in anywhere. Okay. We got two rocks for your padded bags; but I'm not sure they are going to do you any good (as padded bag samples); they are so dust covered (it is impossible to tell what they are).
[The sample is 67215, a 277-gram breccia which is shown in Figures 66A, 66B, and 66C in the Professional Paper.]
168:02:07 England: Okay...
[Charlie goes off-camera to the right, headed for the LMP seat. Fendell pans to follow.]
168:02:09 Duke: I hit one with the shovel here that I've got in my hand that you just saw me pick up, and it didn't break anyway, so at least it's that hard, if that's any criteria. (Joking, deadpan) Do you want me to calibrate myself?

168:02:24 England: No, that's all right...

168:02:25 Young: Well, the Velcro just came off the damn bag.

168:02:26 England: ...we'll take your word for it.

[Fendell finds Charlie at the LMP seat. John is undoubtedly off-camera at the CDR seat and Charlie takes the second padded-bag - which is labeled No. 1 - from him.]
168:02:35 Duke: Okay. What mag...Just give me a (DAC) magazine (from under the CDR seat)...Let's see, (we've got magazine) S on there. (Give me) T or U, John, either one. (Pause)
[Charlie turns to his right to get some sunlight on the padded bag. He opens the bag and stows the sample.]
168:02:49 Young: T or U. Okay. Here's T, Charlie.

168:02:54 Duke: Okay. How about Z-ing (means "close") this up for me?

[Charlie hands the padded bag to John and takes the 16-mm magazine.]
168:02:55 Young: Okay. I'll do it.

168:02:56 Duke: I'll put the mag on.

168:02:58 Young: That's a better sized one. (Pause)

[Charlie turns the staff that holds the 16-mm camera so he can remove the used magazine. As the magazine comes into view, Charlie sees that the film use indicator has not changed.]
168:03:09 Duke: Rats. (Pause) Guess what? (Long Pause)
[Charlie removes the used magazine and hits it several times with his right hand to try to dislodge the indicator. Apparently, it moves.]
168:03:36 Duke: Okay. I thought that thing hadn't run, Tony, but the little ball had just stuck. (Expressing relief) Whew!

168:03:42 England: Okay. Understand.

[Charlie reaches across the Rover seats, probably so he can toss the used magazine into the CDR seatpan. The following dialog suggests he misses the seatpan so that the magazine falls to the ground on John's side of the Rover.]
168:03:43 Duke: Oh, John!
[Charlie gets the new magazine.]
168:03:46 Young: What was it?

168:03:48 Duke: The (used) mag...I did it. I'm sorry.

168:03:50 Young: (I've) got it.

168:03:51 Duke: Got it? Okay.

[Charlie installs the new magazine.]
168:03:55 Young: It's already empty (that is, "used"), right?

168:03:56 Duke: Yeah.

168:03:57 England: It's funny how a little hammering fixes most of the hardware.

168:03:58 Young: (Lost under Tony)

168:03:59 Duke: Okay. (Long Pause)

168:04:12 England: And we want the DAC at f/4 and 12 frames per second.

168:04:16 Duke: Sounds like it...(Stops to listen, does the adjustment, and then points the camera forward) Okay, it's set; and it's on f/4 now.

168:04:29 England: Okay. Good show.

168:04:31 Young: Okay, Charlie. Here's bag (SCB) 6.

168:04:35 Duke: Okay, John.

[Charlie reaches across the seats, takes SCB-6 from John and appears to put it in the LMP seatpan.]
168:04:36 Young: Both padded bags are in there.

168:04:38 Duke: Okay.

[Charlie straightens the scoop head.]
Video Clip ( 3 min 50 sec 1.0 Mb RealVideo or 34 Mb MPEG )

168:04:39 Young: Now, Houston, the Velcro came off both those bags; and we weren't able to put them tight like they are supposed to be.

[Section 14.4.10 in the ( 18 Mb PDF ) Apollo 16 Mission Report ( 18 Mb PDF ) contains the following: "When the crew wrapped the Velcro strap around each of the padded sample bags to further secure them, the Velcro attachment patches came off the bags and the straps were ineffective."]

["A 20-inch-long wrap-around Velcro pile strap is provided to hold the bag closed in addition to the usual tab closure ( fig. 14-64 ). One end of the strap is bonded with a fluorel adhesive to an etched Teflon patch which is heat-sealed to the Teflon bag. A Velcro hook patch is bonded to the etched Teflon patch with a pressure-sensltlve adhesive and provides the attach point for the other end of the strap. The peel strength of the pressure-sensitlve bond was less than that of the Velcro pile-to-hook connections. Consequently, when the Velcro strap was adjusted to the proper tension, the hook patch came off the bag."]

["The problem resulted from using the improper bond material for the Velcro hook patch. This equipment is not scheduled for another flight and no further action is required. This anomaly is closed."]

[Charlie reaches between the seats, grabs the tongs, and goes to the back of the Rover to stow the scoop and tongs.]

168:04:46 England: Okay. We understand. (Pause) And they go under your seat, John.

168:05:01 Young: We put them in an SCB. You don't want them in an SCB?

168:05:05 Duke: No. They don't. They want...

[Note that the gate on the rear of the Rover is open and that Charlie stows the scoop and tongs on the inside face of the Hand Tool Carrier (HTC).]
168:05:06 Young: I think with the Velcro off of them, you can't hardly zee them. I think we ought to leave them in the SCB. If they get in there (in the CDR seatpan) with the film, we will be in trouble.
[John's use of 'zee' is a reference to the way the individual sample bags were sealed, by folding the top of the bag down a time or two then bending the metal tab on one side of the bag across the front of the bag and the other tab across the back. Viewed from the top, the bend metal strip could be though of as forming the letter 'Z'. John is using 'zee' to mean 'seal'.]

[Charlie returns to the LMP seat while John comes into view at the back of the Rover and stows the second pair of tongs.]

168:05:15 England: Okay, fine. Let's just leave them in the SCB.

168:05:18 Young: (Garbled) (Stops to listen) Okay. (Pause)

[Fendell pans left to take a final look at the site before turning the TV off.]
168:05:31 Young: Okay, Charlie. I'm gonna close the HTC.

168:05:33 Duke: Okay. (Pause) They're right on the top there, Tony, in number 6; and there's no rocks on top of them. I think they'll be fine.

168:05:49 England: Okay. Good show.

168:05:52 Duke: Hey, John. Let me put number 7 on your (PLSS)...Try it again on your side.

168:05:56 Young: Charlie, we're just going to lose it. Why don't we just leave it under the seat?

168:05:59 Duke: I can't get it under my seat.

168:06:02 Young: Yeah, but it's full of nice things.

168:06:04 Duke: Okay. Well, I'll hold it in my hand then. I don't...

168:06:09 Young: Want to see if you can put it on?

168:06:11 Duke: Well, if you move away a little bit, yeah. A little bit more. Okay. That's fine. (Pause)

[Fendell stops to look at the north wall of North Ray.]
168:06:28 Duke: It's on there. You know, those things ought to have locks on them like that...The little green locks like the ones on the...(Pause) Hold still. (Pause) John, you got...Am I doing something to make you move? (Pause) Okay, now that's cinched down. Tight.
[Fendell lowers his aim to look at some of the foreground rocks.]
168:07:11 Young: Got it, huh?

168:07:13 Duke: And the Velcro is (garbled) tight. (Pause) But I don't guarantee anything.

168:07:19 Young: All righty.

[Charlie has been doing his best to make sure the SCB and tool harness are as secure as possible to prevent SCB from falling off John's PLSS, as happened with an empty one during the drive to North Ray at about 166:34:15. ]
168:07:20 Duke: Okay. What's my mag count? My mirror's so dirty, I can't even see.

168:07:24 Young: It's 122, Charlie.

168:07:28 Duke: Okay. Let's go.

[Fendell zooms in on what appears to be a half-meter boulder with dust sprayed on the visible surface.]
168:07:30 England: And, John, what's yours?

168:07:35 Young: Mine's 102.

168:07:37 England: Okay. (Pause)

168:07:46 Young: Charlie. (Pause)

168:07:53 Duke: Good grab sample.

168:07:55 Young: Yeah, I thought you'd like that one. (Pause)

168:08:02 Duke: Okay. I'm gonna reset the caution flag.

168:08:04 Young: Okay.

168:08:05 Duke: Okay. (Reading LMP-31) "Frame count, far polarimeter", we've done. Pan...I think we got enough pans; did Stone, Kiva, North Ray.

168:08:15 Young: Okay, (I'm) turning off the tube (meaning the TV).

168:08:16 Duke: Okay. You turn off the tube, and I'll go back to Min cooling.

[TV off.]

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